Messages

Historically, from what I learned, Good Friday was the one day of the year when you did not celebrate Communion.

Who in the world preaches a 10 minute sermon?  And why would anyone think that was sufficient for the care of souls in their congregation?  Even 20 minutes is barely enough.  Luther said we shouldn't preach more than an hour unless we had something especially important to say!

Having now sat in the pew as retired for a couple of years, I always strove for my sermons to be in the 10-12 minute range. The average lay person's attention span goes dull far more quickly than the average preacher thinks that they are stimulating orators. Good preached is, in my humble and retired opinion, far, far more difficult to find than preachers who think they are good preachers. Just saying!

While I agree that American attention spans are not what they were 60 years ago, they are still generally good enough in my experience to deal with a well laid out and presented 25-30 minute sermon proclaiming Christ's sacrifice for the sinners in the pews.  If all I was going to do was tell them that Christ opened the pathway to heaven confess His Name and believe in their hearts God raised Him from the dead, well I'd just print it in the bulletin, sing a hymn or two, offer a prayer for the church and send them home.  Might take less than 1/2 hour.  I'm sorry brothers but I'm having the feeling some of you have raised the rightly administered Sacrament so high you're neglected the proclamation of the pure Gospel (hope I'm wrong about that)

Tim comments: Word AND Sacrament are the twin poles of worship and the liturgy carries the freight. I have occasionally heard longer sermons that were very edifying. However, the best Gospel sermons I've heard are memorable quickly and succinctly. I worked in broadcasting for many years. 60-seconds became too long for a commercial unless it was quickly memorable. 30-second became the norm. We're down to 15-seconds these days. They do not air infomercials during normal TV shows. In our "sound-bite" social media meme based culture, the attention span of most folks is being eroded. We would do well to pay attention to what our parishioners are truly hearing and taking with them.

I would suggest that most of us (me included for which I pray God forgive me) get enamored with the sound of our own voice and the egocentric oration of our own learning. FWIW.

Tim

Having spent a lot of time in the pew, as well as in the pulpit, I can say from the pew perspective, that in many cases, if the sermon is a flop, at least there's the sacrament. And having traveled much, sometimes the sermons, even good ones, don't particularly "hit me" on that day, although they may be something that particular congregation needs to hear. But the Sacrament "works" for me every time. This remains true even if the liturgy is poorly presented.
And I loved preaching the three-year lectionary.

Amen to Charles on that point!

Who in the world preaches a 10 minute sermon?  And why would anyone think that was sufficient for the care of souls in their congregation?  Even 20 minutes is barely enough.  Luther said we shouldn't preach more than an hour unless we had something especially important to say!

Having now sat in the pew as retired for a couple of years, I always strove for my sermons to be in the 10-12 minute range. The average lay person's attention span goes dull far more quickly than the average preacher thinks that they are stimulating orators. Good preached is, in my humble and retired opinion, far, far more difficult to find than preachers who think they are good preachers. Just saying!

And we reach yet another one of those "I thank God that I am not like that one over there" moments.
So here's mine. While  I have been content with the various aspects of my life, and pleased to have done what I have done, nonetheless I thank God that my grandchildren will have more options, more control of their lives, more freedom to follow their own wishes and expectations than were available to me and members of my generation.

True enough, Charlies. But at what point does "their own wishes and expectations" this "more freedom" you speak of deteriorate into nothing more than narcissism, "trying to be like God"? Where are the "boundaries", where is the realization of sin that needs forgiveness and absolution?

I was blessed to know Jim over several years. His uncle installed me in my first parish, and we became friends over many contacts over the years. My only regret was that I wasn't able to sit in one of his seminary classes. The stories abound. Jim's lectures and presentations always reminded me of a theological edition of the "News from Lake Woebegone" with amazing humor, insight and truth. His passing is a great loss to the Church. May he rest in peace and may light perpetual shine upon him.

Pr. Tim Christ, STS

I think a blaze orange stole during deer hunting season would be a good idea. A relevant  color that everyone would understand. Of course the connection with slaughtering cute animals could be problematic.

I believe the correct term is not "cute", but rather "delicious"!!!

Charles,

Thank you for your candid reply. I do understand your inclination but with well over 35+ years of ministry under my belt (not as many as you granted), I would suggest that Luther's Bondage of the Will would be worth re-reading, as well as more modern insights of Family systems and what I refer to as "theological psychology" as over against the "we're basically good people" myth that is constantly promulgated. Again, it is the sola's that transform lives and even then, who truly knows? Thus, at the last is the cry not "Lord, have mercy!"

Tim Christ

Charles,

I know that this is a couple of pages back, but you wrote: "an essential good in humanity," As a Lutheran Pastor, do you truly believe that? It would explain you for years...and would explain your view of the world. If Genesis 3 is truly descriptive of the human condition, such a view is naive at best, and heretical at worst. People are NOT essentially "good". They are captive to being their own god, more often than not without their knowledge or consent, granted, but nevertheless... Do you dare admit that this also applies to us all, whether Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative, you and me, etc.? Grace alone, dear Charles, is the only antecdote of your apparent failure to understand the heart of human nature and the general tone of your posts over all these years.

Tim

Charles,

It saddens me that you so easily distinguish between people and the economy and its impact on life. As one who is also retired, I'm not as impacted as I might have been during my working life, but the fact is: Life is all intertwined and interrelated. The economy is a part of people lives, psychologically, socially, just as is relationships, kinfolk, living communities, even the genome project (!), etc. You are so liberally cavalier sometimes that it really makes me question how much you truly learned about life in its fulness, in spite of your autobiographical rehearsing (over and over) of same on this and previous forums.

Tim Christ

FWIW...got my 2nd Phizer vacinnation on Sunday. No sore arm. No side effects of any type. Back on the golf course on Tuesday. However, the vaccine has not improved my golf game, in spite of the confidence the Doctor delivering the shot had that it would do so!

Pr. Tim Christ, STS (retired)

I once heard that "joy" and "happiness" are Bibilically distinct. "Happiness" was defined as "right circumstances", if I want to play golf and it's raining, I'm not happy! By contrast, "joy" is "right relationship". From our Lord's perspective, this is established and eternal in our Baptism into the death and resurrection of Christ. It is sheer gift. However, the living out of that "joy" in our broken world, our relationship with others and with our world...well that is far more difficult, as Charles has eloquently said. This event has separated (root concept of sin) us from one another. Yes, Pastor Bohler, God's promise is sure. But in the warp and woof of a fallen world, the "joy" we once shared in community (church, world and beyond) is deeply and profoundly challenged. We can "know" it is present but because we are not experiencing even remotely fullness we once took for granted, our human nature is feeling the pain of such loss. Not unlike the ongoing emptiness in my life since the death of my wife. I cannot "fix" that, I can rejoice in the promised resurrection, but the daily reality of emptiness and loss is still a part of my ongoing earthly journey. FWIW.

Pr. B.A. "Tim" Christ, STS (retired)

What change? Every scientist worthy of the name will admit that we do not have sufficient data to formulate any trends as regards "climate change". It's just the latest fadish speculations hyperventilated upon by the publicity seeking media/social media/political frenzy, which is fueled by none other than: the profit motive. I was young once, too. I suspect we all got caught up in the "trends of our time" only to discover years later how short sighted we truly were as regarded many many things of our youth. Echoes of Paul's "When I was a child, etc." 

What is missing in this conversation is the fact that there are many states where such fires (caused by natural phenomenon as well as human error, etc.) are far more rare due to the fact that routinely clearing underbrush, cutting firebreaks, and a variety of other common sense preventatives are not done in California because the tree huggers and environmental wackos are far more interested in plants and animals than people and sadly, with the political climate in place making money off of it all, getting away with it.

Will anyone in the governmental arena in California finally take note that the only state with this consistent problem is California? Could it be that the prevailing political ethos is primarily responsible for most of these state specific problems? Just asking. California is beautiful, but (with the possible exception of Illinois) appears to be the most messed up state among the lower forty-eight. My new wife lived in California most of her life and was involved in many of these matters and is beyond giddy about being able to get out and now live elsewhere, where, as she puts it, common sense still has a foothold in how the state is governed.