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Messages - Marshall_Hahn

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1
Your Turn / Re: Christian response to Rittenhouse trial
« on: November 25, 2021, 11:14:24 AM »
Obviously no two cases are exactly alike, but what would have happened differently if Rittenhouse were black? 

I have no doubt that if Rittenhouse had been black the case would have never come to court.  Without the pressure to label Rittenhouse as a "white supremacist vigilante" the DA could have looked at the evidence and seen from the beginning that it was clearly a case of self-defense.

Marshall Hahn

2
Your Turn / Re: Christian response to Rittenhouse trial
« on: November 22, 2021, 09:33:09 AM »
There is an old legal adage:  "When the facts are on your side, argue the facts. When the law is on your side, argue the law. And when you don't have either on your side, pound the table".
There has been a lot of pounding going on by those who are critical of the Rittenhouse verdict - ignoring the facts presented by the witnesses and evidence in the trial, and disregarding the law.  CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, Joe Biden, LeBron James, Bill DeBlassio, Gavin Newsom, Jerry Nadler, and countless others - including our intellectual, moral and spiritual betters in Hollywood have waxed eloquent on everything but the facts of the case and the relevant statutes involved.  Instead, they have reverted to a hodgepodge of innuendo, irrelevancies, and defamatory nonsense - Racist!  White supremacy!  Racist!  Vigilante!  Racist! Cowboys and Indians!  Racist!  AR 15!  Racist!  State lines!  Racist!  Militia!  Racist! and on and on...

As James Gale highlights above, the facts presented are rather straightforward - Rittenhouse was chased down by a man who had threatened "If I catch one of you alone, I'm going to kill you!"  Rittenhouse ran from him until he was cornered.  When he turned to face him, the man "lunged" at him.  Rittenhouse shot as the man's hand was either on or within inches of his gun.  Rittenhouse then began running toward the police line, being chased by at least 3 other protesters*.  One of them hit him twice with a skateboard, knocking him to the ground, the second one kicked him in the face, and the third pointed a loaded gun in his face.  Rittenhouse shot at all three, killing the first, missing the second, and injuring the third.  He escaped and went to the police line.

Likewise, the law of self-defense is rather straightforward, as well.  If a person faces a threat that any reasonable person would consider likely to cause great bodily harm or death, that person is justified under the law to use whatever force is necessary to neutralize that threat, including deadly force.  As Gale mentions, the prosecution, after seeing their case blow up in their face, attempted to bring in at the last moment the theory of "provocation", with some pretty flimsy evidence and which requires a rather high bar to establish.

A lot has been said by the pontificators mentioned above about how things would have played out differently if the accused were a black male.  In my opinion, if that had been the case, this case would never had been brought to court - just as Rittenhouse never should have been charged in the first place.  There was a rush to judgment not only by the media but by the prosecution, as well, in response to the pressure to make an example of this "white supremacist vigilante". 

*As to the 3 who chased Rittenhouse down after he shot Rosenbaum, they are the only ones who could be seen as "vigilantes" in this event.  They did not want him to make it to the police line, where he would be safe from their revenge.  They took it upon themselves to attempt to be judge, jury, and executioners. 

The whole thing is a tragic event for all involved.  Rittenhouse is currently in treatment for PTSD, the evidence for which was on display when he had to recount the shootings on cross examination, and when he heard the verdict read.  I applaud the courage of the jury to render a verdict based on the evidence despite the threats of violence.  And I place a good deal of the blame on the governor of Wisconsin for abandoning Kenosha to the rioters in the first place. 

Marshall Hahn 

3
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: August 07, 2020, 09:06:54 PM »
I just tried online scheduling for a test, first with CVS pharmacy, then with two healthcare organizations near me. Answering all of the questions honestly, about age, general health, travels, etc., I was told I didn’t qualify for testing.

I think it is unfortunate that you have encountered such roadblocks in seeking to be tested for Covid-19.  I believe it would be good for anyone who desires to do so to have the opportunity to be tested.  I do this myself as another level of assurance for the congregation - and for myself - that our in-person worship services can be conducted in as safe a manner as possible.
I cannot say what accounts for the difference in your experience from mine.  I also answered questions about my health (no symptoms), contact with anyone infected by the virus (no), age (60 - 65), ages of those in our home (2 people 60 - 65), and occupation (church worker).  I can only guess that the difference is my willingness to travel a bit further and/or the difference between the testing procedures of our respective states.

Marshall Hahn

4
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: August 07, 2020, 12:26:55 PM »
Since we began holding limited, socially-distanced in-person worship services on May 30, I have been going to get tested every two weeks or so.  It is an hour drive for me, but that is no further than the typical hospital visit I used to make pre-Covid.  It simply involves  making a reservation a day or so ahead of time, going to the drive-through testing site at a shopping center parking lot, and showing my appointment code and ID.  Takes about 2 minutes once I get there.  There are several such sites across the state of Iowa.  Anyone with access to a vehicle can be tested.  As of yesterday 1 in 6 people in the state have been tested. 

Marshall Hahn

5
I am not qualified to suggest who might become president of the Seminary. As to the office of bishop of the NALC, Pr. Marshall Hahn is the obvious choice. Of course, the church headquarters will have to move to St. Olaf, Iowa, but that is a small sacrifice for such a capable bishop.  8)
It appears obvious that neither are you qualified to suggest who might become bishop of the NALC!   ::)

Marshall Hahn

6
Your Turn / Re: Recent Lutheran Theologians Who Joined RCC or EO
« on: January 22, 2019, 07:56:50 AM »
Yes, correct doctrine has no importance in our salvation.


On the other hand, the Church (including ours) anathematizes false doctrine.

Hmmm.

It is like saying that road signs are not important in getting to your destination. 

7
Your Turn / Re: A Concern for "Morality" in our Land, or not?
« on: December 10, 2018, 04:02:56 PM »
Marshall Hahn writes:
So you think there really is a wolf this time?  The little boy has proven pretty unreliable so far, but we shall see.

I comment:
There is indeed a wolf. There is no doubt about that. But the flock has been seduced, the shepherds conned, and the wolf-hunters marginalized.

Oh?  So far all we have is the little boy crying, "Wolf!" like he has a dozen times before in these last 2 years and many of the villagers coming out with pitchforks and cudgels to try to find it.  You will have to excuse some of us if we wait in the village for something a bit more definitive - like some substantiation.

Quote
Pastor Engebretson writes:
Although there was clear evidence that the president violated the law, public opinion never rallied against him.  Even with the "me-too" movement he still remains relatively popular, despite his many affairs.
I comment:
And there is the major problem. "Public opinion," that is, opinions from the Trumpsters apparently do not care about law, conventional morality, criminality, taking unfair emoluments from being office or appointing and being surrounded by inept miscreants. And those opinions apparently include people claiming the mantle of evangelicals and Christianity.

Perhaps you misread Pr. Engebretson's post.  The president to whom he was referring for which there was clear evidence of criminal behavior was President Bill Clinton, not President Trump.
 
 
Quote
Frankly, I think that any Christian who does not - at this time, even if they supported him previously - fervently oppose him is a fool and should be called to repentance. But that is a hard thing to do and probably will not happen.

Certainly one of the most uncharitable posts ever written on this forum - and that is saying quite a bit.  You are entitled to your opinion concerning President Trump's possible criminal or impeachable behavior, but at this point, that is all it is - an opinion.  It is my opinion that Secretary Clinton's mishandling of her governmental emails was a chargeable offense at least as bad as those of others that have placed them in prison.  But absent a full investigation, with an opportunity to defend herself that is all it is - my opinion.  And to hold an alternate opinion is not reason for me to demand repentance - much less question someone's Christian faith.  It is also my opinion that the constant, unsubstantiated allegations against President Trump have had a greater deleterious effect upon our country than the crude, uncharitable, offensive remarks and tweets that President Trump has made.  Which is why I choose not to join in the chorus demanding Trump's head on a platter.

Marshall Hahn 

8
Your Turn / Re: A Concern for "Morality" in our Land, or not?
« on: December 10, 2018, 08:08:49 AM »
As to the topic that began this thread...
I note that the information we read in today's news, information that is not disputed or "fake," it would seem that 1) there may have been considerable violations of campaign finance laws and related laws during the 2016 election campaign and that the candidate probably knew of these violations and most likely instigated them.
It also seems that the connections between high-ranking members of the Trump campaign staff had a number of dealings with agents of the Russian government, and that the Russian government was offering information and other things, including financial gain, to the candidate and attempting to influence the election.
The level to which these actions become impeachable or the practicality of indictment and/or prosecution is, as yet, not clear. But the "package" of information emanating from the investigations grows larger as the high-ranking campaign aides make deals and face the consequences of what they did because of loyalty to or on orders from the candidate.

So you think there really is a wolf this time?  The little boy has proven pretty unreliable so far, but we shall see.

Marshall Hahn

9
Your Turn / Re: Do other gods exist?
« on: November 07, 2018, 11:16:15 AM »
No.

10
Your Turn / Re: A Concern for "Morality" in our Land, or not?
« on: October 21, 2018, 09:13:53 PM »
But I suspect the "mob" did expect to win.

11
Your Turn / Re: A Concern for "Morality" in our Land, or not?
« on: October 21, 2018, 02:44:32 PM »
Considering the events of the last few weeks, I offer the following - with apologies to Billy Jack:

JUSTICE KAVANAUGH


Listen, children, to the hearings
That the Senate held today,
About a man accused of doing
Horrendous things, so she did say.

“There’s no way he didn’t do it!”
Thus the mob in anger cried,
Even though they couldn’t prove it
Despite the many ways they tried.

REFRAIN:
     Go ahead, declare him guilty!
     Go ahead, destroy his name!
     Though there’s no corroboration,
     You can vilify him just the same!

     With shouting and intimidation
     You thought that you could win;
     And you never thought you’d see the day
     Justice Kavanaugh was sworn in.

In the streets and in the hallways
Came the mob with voices loud,
Vowing to destroy all others
Who refused to join the crowd.

In offices and elevators,
Targeting each wav’ring one,
Demanding that they acquiesce, and
Vote to see him be undone.

REFRAIN:
     Go ahead, declare him guilty!
     Go ahead, destroy his name!
     Though there’s no corroboration,
     You can vilify him just the same!

     With shouting and intimidation
     You thought that you could win;
     And you never thought you’d see the day
     Justice Kavanaugh was sworn in.

Then within the Senate chambers
The Senator, from Caribou, stands,
Suddenly the mob is silent;
They know his fate lies in her hands.

Calmly, with deliberation,
Considering the years gone past,
Based on what is ‘more than likely’,
“I shall confirm,” she says at last.

REFRAIN:
     Go ahead, declare him guilty!
     Go ahead, destroy his name!
     Though there’s no corroboration,
     You can vilify him just the same!

     With shouting and intimidation
     You thought that you could win;
     Though you never thought you’d see the day;
     Justice Kavanaugh is sworn in.


Marshall Hahn


12
Your Turn / Re: A Concern for "Morality" in our Land, or not?
« on: September 20, 2018, 10:19:43 PM »
It’s true that Judge Kavanaugh would not be subject to scrutiny if he were not “in power.”  Of course, I think it’s fair to hold people in power to a heightened standard of conduct. But even these people are entitled to be judged on actual, persuasive evidence.

Yes, Pastor Gale, but no one has so far been allowed or done any work to find evidence, witnesses and so forth... except perhaps for the news media.  There may in fact be none.  And that would be that if someone allowed some time and some law enforcement types to search for witnesses, corroboration, evidence of some sort.  And where there is at least one or perhaps more witnesses their witness is not evidence because it is not before law enforcement or the courts but just their own statements verbally and in email type stuff... and no one has been able to ask them about their statements in a setting where the lie and falsehood is punished.


I'm not a pastor.  That aside, I'm not sure what you're proposing.  Based on Dr. Ford's own account, there is nothing to find here. She told nobody about this until 2012.  The only witnesses, according to her account, would be Judge Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, and her.  Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford have the opportunity to testify under oath and subject to perjury laws.  For these purposes, the Senate is capable of weighing the testimony it hears.  Based on that testimony, the Judiciary Committee could seek more information, but I doubt it.  The Senate at that point likely will either confirm Judge Kavanaugh or he will be forced to withdraw, ending the matter.


Here's a letter written by Chairman Grassley that addresses some of your points:  Link

From all that I have read, our senior Senator from Iowa has done a most commendable job in directing the work of the Judiciary Committee through these difficult events.  He has been judicious, fair, accommodating and careful to maintain, as much as possible, a semblance of proper order to the procedures.

13
Your Turn / Re: John McCain: an American hero is laid to rest
« on: September 01, 2018, 12:30:58 PM »
Actually John McCain did Trump a favor by saying he was not to be invited to his funeral.  Otherwise no matter what Trump had done he would have been excoriated - if he attended, he would have been accused of being a hypocrite.  If he had stayed away, he would have been accused of being unfeeling and petty.  It was a generous move on McCain's part to leave instructions that he not be invited.

Marshall Hahn

14
ELCA pastors are not prohibited from supplying in NALC congregations.

A statement that is demonstrably false and has been reported to be so time and again on this forum.

Marshall Hahn

15
Your Turn / Re: Do you translate?
« on: August 20, 2018, 12:53:47 PM »
In our weekly text study group we typically translate the Gospel reading for the week.  I would not say it is a rigorous translation exercise but it gives us an opportunity to examine some of the more difficult words and phrases and compare them with other instances of the same in the Gospel and within the NT as a whole.

Marshall Hahn

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