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Messages - evangelical catholic

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1
Gosh, that Trump is just awful, awful awful!!!!!

There. I saved Charles fifteen hours and five hundred future posts.

A little off the topic but I looked you up, Pastor and was very impressed with St Paul's Church & School.

Does St Pauls accept Lutheran children raised by same-sex parents?
If you subscribed to Forum Letter you would have long ago received an entire article addressing  St. Paul, Munster’s policy in that regard. Short answer, yes, with the stipulation that the child will be taught traditional, Christian sexual mortality per the teachings of the LCMS. Actively undermining or advocating against our teachings can be grounds for dismissal from our community.

Several districts in the U.S., Canada, and Australia asked for permission to use our policy as a template for the development of their own policies as a result of reading it in Forum Letter.

Does St Paul's School allow LBGT teachers/ employees? Would a teacher be fired if Gay?

2
Gosh, that Trump is just awful, awful awful!!!!!

There. I saved Charles fifteen hours and five hundred future posts.

A little off the topic but I looked you up, Pastor and was very impressed with St Paul's Church & School.

Does St Pauls accept Lutheran children raised by same-sex parents?

3
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 07:42:28 PM »
When I began middle school, we moved from the Central Valley to the Salinas Valley. After the 'Bracero" program ended the growers' needed laborers to harvest the numerous 'Salad Bowl" produce. A significant influx of migrant workers from Mexico eventually became the largest ethnic group. My Dad, a 'Reagan Democrat', like many others, was concerned over the rapidly changing demographics. So it was a revelation when Dad concluded that it was the "will of God" that these Spanish-speaking outsiders be accommodated resulting in higher taxes for school construction/ health care institutions.

A wise and compassionate Christian in a way that seems alien here with some posters.   

4
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 07:11:48 PM »
The inclusion of “unsafe” in the description of how evangelical catholic would feel at Pr. Johnson’s church would be laughable were it not so cliche. It is the heart and soul of the passive-aggressive playbook; attack by claiming to feel intimidated.

Feeling unsafe when you are aren’t in the least bit unsafe is a sign of an actual phobia, as opposed to the fauxbias conservatives generally get accused of having.

I don't believe I know you, dear Christian. How do you assume what is in my "heart"?

BTW, are you an ELCA pastor?

5
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 05:43:06 PM »
Question for the Rev. Ryan P. Gage. Did you participate in the Synod installation of Bishop Constanze Hagmaier?

Evidently I can not link the South Dakota Synod website showing the videos. 


6
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 05:20:31 PM »

I do not engage in "gotcha" online casuistry with individuals who make accusing public statements against people they do not know, attempt to "get them sent to the principals office" by sending emails to their bishop, and edge toward doxxing in this forum.

If you ever have the opportunity visit our beautiful little patch of the prairie, please feel free to stop in at Zion Lutheran for coffee and conversation, or join us for worship on Sundays at 9:30.

Until then, Christ's peace.

RPG+

Do you include Bishop Reverend Constanze Hagmaier in your public statements?

I'm sorry -- are you insane?  You slandered a moderator here, and now you seem to be wanting to play coy about it.

This isn't Twitter.  Adults converse here.

My diagnosis is Major Depressive Disorder

7
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 05:15:30 PM »

I do not engage in "gotcha" online casuistry with individuals who make accusing public statements against people they do not know, attempt to "get them sent to the principals office" by sending emails to their bishop, and edge toward doxxing in this forum.

If you ever have the opportunity visit our beautiful little patch of the prairie, please feel free to stop in at Zion Lutheran for coffee and conversation, or join us for worship on Sundays at 9:30.

Until then, Christ's peace.

RPG+

Do you include Reverend Bishop Constanze Hagmaier in your public statements?

8
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 04:34:56 PM »
No one was banned.  The Forum was offline for several days with technical problems.  See this thread: http://alpb.org/Forum/index.php?topic=7314.0.
You owe Pr. Johnson an apology, for starters.
RPG+

Dear Pastor,

So if I happened to seek Holy Communion at your parish, Zion Lutheran, would I be denied the sacrament?   

9
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: November 08, 2019, 02:49:54 PM »
Pastor Charlton:
As a faithful Lutheran, I trust Scripture, Creeds and Confessions and seek to be loyal to them.  As a faithful Lutheran I do not trust the decisions of assemblies, because, as Luther himself argued, Church Councils can err. 
I comment:
The creeds and confessions, And to some extent, scripture, were developed by councils. Could they have erred?

Quote
  Take a look at the Leipzig debate and see what Lutheran had to say about that.  There is nothing un-Lutheran about questioning the decisions of councils.

Pastor Charlton:
\In a similar manner, I respect the office of bishop, but as a faithful Lutheran, I know that bishops cannot establish articles of faith, nor can they bind the consciences of Christians.  As an ordained minster, I am bound by my ordination vows to point out when assemblies err and to disobey when a bishop tries to compel me to violate Scripture, Creeds or Confessions.
Me:
So the “bottom line” is you. You decide what is true, you decide what is correct, you decide what your ordination vows mean. You are a Church, a Council, a denomination and a synod of one.  Rather un-Lutheran, I think. And it will be impossible for you to be fully committed member of any denomination.

You are not that dumb, Charles.  You know that is not what I said.  The ELCA itself recognizes that its assemblies cannot alter the Creeds and the Confessions.  It recognizes that bishops cannot establish articles of faith and bind consciences.  You and your anonymous friend known as "evangelical catholic" espouse a kind of sycophantic loyalty that even the ELCA doesn't expect of its pastors.  Your demand for loyalty to human institutions is positively un-evangelical.

"anonymous" no more dear Pastor

Below is the email I sent to the bishop of the Sierra-Pacific synod with copies to Pastors Johnson and Hannah/ ALPB officers. My bishop also received a copy and subsequently invited me to the mid-week staff Eucharist at Synod headquarters. The pericopes were from All Saint's Sunday.  Gospel is attached.  The photo is me with Rt Rev. Erwin presenting a print from Ed Riojas' work entitled "Redemption".


"Greetings dear bishop Holmerud,

My bishop is Rev. R. Guy Erwin. Recently I communed at St Matthew's Church here in Glendale though I am not a member of a parish. Life-long Lutheran, I was educated in LCMS schools from parochial to seminary [Seminex for a year]. I greeted Bishop Erwin at his visitation to Good Shepherd parish in LA last year and took this photo including Pastor King and the parish president right before Mass.

Now, retired with plenty of time to reconnect to others; I recently discovered the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau website and joined the discussion forum. Many contributors are also members of "The Society of the Holy Trinity" and share my love for the liturgy/ seeking the healing presence of our Lord in Holy Communion.  A surprising number of fellow forum participants are actual classmates when I was a student at Concordia Fort Wayne. Pastor Johnson was born in Chico the same year as me and where my mother was born and where I lived in early childhood. Many of the pastors who participate identify their congregation with direct links. All fine liturgical parishes of Word and Sacrament. The kind of Lutherans I have known all my life.

My interest has primarily been with the Lutheran World Federation and the ELCA but mostly photos/ videos highlighting great parishes/ clergy and worship or discussion of Reformation history. I happened onto the discussion of tax exemptions for religious organizations and joined in by supporting concerns that Democratic presidential candidate Beto O Rourke proposal would hurt the work of the Church. But as I read the posts of others including Pastor Johnson, I discovered the primary reason for concern was over LBGTQ people. Call me naive, but I was shocked by the comments of Pastor Johnson and several other ELCA pastors and asked how they reconcile their opinions with the policies of the ELCA and LWF. Speaking open contempt of the very Church body these pastors are members of really surprised and greatly saddened me.

I posted the Wikipedia article on Bishop Erwin pointing out that he was entering his second 6-year term.  Photos of Bishop Erwin leading worship, as well as Lutheran bishops standing with the king and queen of Sweden, were included. I suggest a visit to the ALPB forum for more insight into the comments about bishop Erwin and LBGTQ people.   

Evidently I have been banned for supporting the ELCA but only get this response from Pastor Johnson.

"Upgrading the forum...
Don't worry, we will be back shortly with an updated forum. It will only be a minute ;)."

When the Church, in general, is facing serious decline in membership, I find it ironic that some of our pastors would openly exclude fellow Lutherans.  Obviously I would feel very unwelcome/ unsafe in worship at Pastor Johnson's church.  This is an unexpected betrayal since the familial rejection of me, as a Gay man, is still very painful. Now 70 years old and after hospitalization for suicidal ideation, I am seeking out fellowship with my Lutheran brothers and sisters.  Perhaps Pastor Johnson would allow me to be part of the Christian community.

Thank you bishop Holmerud,  I understand that Pastor Johnson is an active minister of your Synod.

Pax,

Charles Happold


"Gospel – Matthew 5:1-12A
1 When Jesus saw the crowds, he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him.

2 He began to teach them, saying:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.

6 Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.

7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you falsely because of me.

12A Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.”

10
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: October 15, 2019, 06:56:03 PM »

Bishop Erwin began serving his second 6 yr term last month. 
...
https://www.socalsynod.org/2019/06/26/bishop-guy-erwins-message-for-pride-2019/
   

At his election, +Guy was my mother's pastor and, by all indications, he served the congregation faithfully and with dedication as Interim.  The previous Christmass-tide while visiting my parents, I worshiped with my mother and received the Body and Blood of Christ from him.  When we arrived for worship that morning (the only time we've met in person, though we'd been Facebook friends), he greeted me by saying he'd come close to calling the day before to ask me to lead worship as his flight from back East was on the verge of being cancelled for the wintry weather.  He is one of too few scholarly-types on the Conference of Bishop.  He's a kind man, with good pastoral sensibilities.

The video disappoints me greatly and, furthermore, goes well beyond any of this church's official teachings -- which are already theologically bankrupt -- on these matters.  Prior to his election as Bishop, such sentiments on his part would have surprised me.  I had hoped, even as one married to his male partner, he was a better theologian and pastor than this.  The rot in the ELCA is deep and wide and poisonous.

Kyrie eleison, Steven+

Synod-wide assemblies disagree with you, Pastor. Are you uncomfortable under the communion leadership of the LWF?

11
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: October 15, 2019, 06:47:52 PM »
Curious of ELCA pastors on this forum if they would not allow a fellow ordained brother/ sister to care for the parish in their absence if the pastor is gay/ lesbian?   

No, I would not "not allow" such an ELCA pastor care for my parish in my absence.  But on a list I prepared of those to contact in an emergency in my absence, the name of an openly practicing g/l colleague would likely be pretty far down. 

Pax, Steven+

Is your reluctance based on parishioner uneasy or your concern over the competency of the assisting pastor who is gay?

12
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: October 15, 2019, 06:39:51 PM »
Bishop Erwin confirmed these young people at nearby St Matthews church.  Is he unfit to perform episcopal duties? The parish sponsored a 'street Mass' before the Gay Pride parade in Los Angeles. Are all these Lutherans immoral?

Are all Lutherans who hold traditional positions on marriage immoral?  (Sorry that I don't have a picture to attach.)  Are all Lutherans who hold traditional positions on marriage hate filled fundamentalists?  Would Bishop Erwin allow a pastor who holds a traditional position on marriage to interview for a call in his synod?  Would the Candidacy Committee of Bishop Erwin's synod endorse a person for ordination who held a traditional position on marriage?  Would the same committee endorse a candidate who believed that gender is determined by biological sex?

We have differences of opinion and evolving opinions. Like arguing over female ordination. We are followers of our Lord seeking guidance on anthropological insight and humanity.

Thanks.  But I also asked whether people who have different opinions from you are prevented from interviewing for a call, or being endorsed by the candidacy committee in the enlightened reign of Bishop Erwin.  At the current time I am not aware of a single synod or seminary that excludes people who share the enlightened views of Bishop Erwin, but at least two seminaries where people with traditional views are excluded.  I've also heard reports that more than one synod excludes people with traditional views.  What I don't know is whether that includes Bishop Erwin's synod or not.  Can you share what you know?

I am a layman. I have no idea what you ask.  Perhaps some ELCA pastors can better address this.

You seem to be much better at asking rhetorical questions than you are at answering them.  If you can't answer your own question when it is put to you, it must have been a meaningless question.

I'm a child of the Missouri Synod. Pastors were worshipped and rightly so. I wanted to be the best servant of the liturgy, understanding at an early age that Jesus is present.  As a faithful Lutheran, I trust the decisions made in assemblies and receive my bishop's visit as a wonderful through the rare occasion. The 'ins and outs' of administrative activity hasn't been my focus. Perhaps you can provide citations. That would help alot.   

13
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: October 15, 2019, 02:21:13 PM »

Perhaps the Nazis tortured and executed homosexuals in the same concentration camp as Bonhöffer. Do you think that Lutheran martyr considered their death as God's will?
I'm hardly an expert on Bonhoeffer, so I don't know. If you have a point to make, an accusation to level, or a stereotype to publish, go on ahead. These little snide  insinuations become tiresome.

I'm not attacking you, my Lutheran pastor friend. Forgive me if it feels that way. But if you cite Bonhoeffer than consider the broad scope of his words to Christians.
I cited Martin Niemöller not Bonhoeffer. One can suggest that certain actions are sinful without applauding violence against the actors.

Oops, my bad. Sorry

14
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: October 14, 2019, 11:26:42 PM »
Bishop Erwin confirmed these young people at nearby St Matthews church.  Is he unfit to perform episcopal duties? The parish sponsored a 'street Mass' before the Gay Pride parade in Los Angeles. Are all these Lutherans immoral?

Are all Lutherans who hold traditional positions on marriage immoral?  (Sorry that I don't have a picture to attach.)  Are all Lutherans who hold traditional positions on marriage hate filled fundamentalists?  Would Bishop Erwin allow a pastor who holds a traditional position on marriage to interview for a call in his synod?  Would the Candidacy Committee of Bishop Erwin's synod endorse a person for ordination who held a traditional position on marriage?  Would the same committee endorse a candidate who believed that gender is determined by biological sex?

We have differences of opinion and evolving opinions. Like arguing over female ordination. We are followers of our Lord seeking guidance on anthropological insight and humanity.

Thanks.  But I also asked whether people who have different opinions from you are prevented from interviewing for a call, or being endorsed by the candidacy committee in the enlightened reign of Bishop Erwin.  At the current time I am not aware of a single synod or seminary that excludes people who share the enlightened views of Bishop Erwin, but at least two seminaries where people with traditional views are excluded.  I've also heard reports that more than one synod excludes people with traditional views.  What I don't know is whether that includes Bishop Erwin's synod or not.  Can you share what you know?

I am a layman. I have no idea what you ask.  Perhaps some ELCA pastors can better address this. 

15
Your Turn / Re: Tax exemption
« on: October 14, 2019, 11:18:38 PM »

Perhaps the Nazis tortured and executed homosexuals in the same concentration camp as Bonhöffer. Do you think that Lutheran martyr considered their death as God's will?
I'm hardly an expert on Bonhoeffer, so I don't know. If you have a point to make, an accusation to level, or a stereotype to publish, go on ahead. These little snide  insinuations become tiresome.

I'm not attacking you, my Lutheran pastor friend. Forgive me if it feels that way. But if you cite Bonhoeffer than consider the broad scope of his words to Christians. 

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