Messages

1

Your Turn / Re: Jews and God(s)?

« on: March 26, 2023, 09:03:28 PM »

I know that there are Christians who maintain that neither the Trinity, nor Christ, are revealed in the Old Testament, so that any exegesis that finds a reference to Christ or the Trinity is eisegesis.  I find it difficult to see how such a position can successfully ward off Marcionism, however.

Easy. The Old Testament is still the Word of God for us. It points to Jesus. It has "types" of Jesus, e.g., Moses, who brought the people God's Law directly from God on Mount Sinai, and Jesus who brought the proper interpretation of God's Law in the Sermon on the Mount. The sacrifices and their benefits in Leviticus is the necessary background to understanding Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. John shows how Jesus on the cross is similar to the serpents Moses hung on poles.

I've looked at every passage where the Hebrew "messiah" is used. Ironically, it is never translated "messiah," but 'anointed (one)." Those who look to the OT to understand what a messiah is and does will not find the word applicable to Jesus. In fact, A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament states with its definition of "anointed one;" "N.B. 'Messiah' as eschatological savior-figure not in OT." Rather, this word is used of the kings of Israel, especially Saul, David, Solomon, and successors; priests and high priests; Cyrus, and patriarchs.

Much closer to Jesus' saving acts are the suffering-servant poems in Isaiah - but the servant is never called a messiah.

Intersting method of argument, affirming the very thing you had previously denied.

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Your Turn / Re: Jews and God(s)?

« on: March 25, 2023, 07:58:45 PM »

I know that there are Christians who maintain that neither the Trinity, nor Christ, are revealed in the Old Testament, so that any exegesis that finds a reference to Christ or the Trinity is eisegesis.  I find it difficult to see how such a position can successfully ward off Marcionism, however.

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Your Turn / Re: Real life version of the book Children of Men?

« on: March 18, 2023, 02:30:25 PM »

I don't think the cause can be reduced to money.  It has a lot to do with our social imaginary.  What does it mean to live the good life?  What is the future that we imagine for ourselves and the coming generations? 

There was a time when a being a success as a man meant having a good job, a wife, children, and a good home.  That certainly was the case for my father and my father-in-law.  Both grew up in the depression and served in WWII.  They got an education through the GI Bill and found good employment.  However, they hadn't truly arrived until they had a wife and children and could provide a good home for them.  For my father-in-law, the high point of his week was attending church with his family. 

For many young men, the good life means wealth, women, cars and luxuries. (i.e. Andre Tate)  For the ones who would prefer something traditional, there is little hope that they will every achieve that.  The majority of young men in America can't support a family on what they earn.  Furthermore, in a hook up culture, it seems difficult to find a fitting spouse for a traditional marriage.  Meanwhile, we live in a culture that mocks traditional marriage, and in particular ridicules the notion of being a family man.  Even many churches are afraid to lift up the traditional family as a goal for young men.

I'm sure that young women are equally discouraged, but I feel less qualified to describe how they feel.

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Your Turn / Re: Valpo President/Board Decide to Sell Art Masterpieces to Pay for Dorm Renovation

« on: March 16, 2023, 04:43:55 PM »

Regarding English majors and the humanities in general, men [and women] without chests don't need such things.  They simply need technical knowledge with which to manipulate their environments and provide for their physical health and pleasure.  The sciences provide all that is needed for such animals.

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Your Turn / Re: Pope Francis says RCC banning priests from engaging in sex is temporary

« on: March 14, 2023, 07:37:10 PM »

The only thing that seemed odd was the word "temporary".  In the context, I know what it means, but there would better words.  Perhaps what the Pope said in Spanish makes more sense.  Most uninformed readers will conclude that there is definite end in sight, and that at some point in time the policy of priestly celibacy will be suspended. There truth is that it is already suspended in some cases, but it might never be suspended for the priesthood as a whole.

The Spanish is "temporal", probably in contrast to "eternal".

El celibato en la iglesia occidental es una prescripción temporal: no sé si se resuelve de un modo o de otro, pero es provisoria en este sentido; no es eterna como la ordenación sacerdotal, que es para siempre, te guste o no te guste. Que dejes o no dejes es otro tema, pero es para siempre. En cambio el celibato es una disciplina.

It could mean that the requirement of celibacy is a this-worldly matter, or (perhaps therefore) something that can come and go.

Peace,
Michael

Thanks, that is what I thought.  From some of the headlines I've seen, Americans are misunderstanding temporal to mean temporary.

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Your Turn / Re: Pope Francis says RCC banning priests from engaging in sex is temporary

« on: March 14, 2023, 04:59:05 PM »

The only thing that seemed odd was the word "temporary".  In the context, I know what it means, but there would better words.  Perhaps what the Pope said in Spanish makes more sense.  Most uninformed readers will conclude that there is definite end in sight, and that at some point in time the policy of priestly celibacy will be suspended. There truth is that it is already suspended in some cases, but it might never be suspended for the priesthood as a whole. 

7

Your Turn / Re: Megan Rohrer sues ELCA

« on: March 04, 2023, 03:27:54 PM »

Meghan Rohrer's suit follows the same logic as the Bishop Eaton's apology to Iglesia Santa Maria Peregrina.  Both follow a strange but consistent form of Idealism, which asserts that universals are more real than individuals.  Actually, it goes so far as denying that true individuals even exist. So, when Bishop Eaton issued her apology, it was not an individual apology for her own actions, but an apology on behalf of several universals, including the ELCA and Whiteness.  The ELCA and Whiteness were responsible for Eaton's failure to respond adequately to the actions of then Bishop Rohrer.

It is perfectly, reasonable for former Bishop Rohrer to see themself not as an individual with moral agency, but an instance of the universal known as Trans.  As an instance of the universal Trans, they is the victim of the universal known as Cis.  Part of the essence of Cis is to oppress.  Part of the essence of Trans is to be a victim of Cis.  Through the false ideology of "individual responsibility" oppressive universals such as Cis, Hetero, White, and Male, seek to disguise their oppression of Trans.  Holding former Bishop Rohrer individually responsible for their actions is to perpetual Cis-hetero-white-male oppression of Trans.

I think that the accusations of racist against Megan are unfounded.

Of course.  That is a perfectly logical conclusion based on the premise above.  Bishop Eaton is not guilty of racism.  Neither is former bishop Rohrer.  However, the ELCA, including all of its members, pastors and congregations, is guilty of racism and White Supremacy.  It was wrong for the ELCA to hold Rohrer responsible, because as an individual, Rohrer is a social construct lacking moral agency.  Only universals have moral agency.  The tragedy that befell Bishop Roher was the systemic confluence of White Supremacy and Cis-normativity.  You and I, belonging to the set White-cis-hetero-male are guilty, but Megan Rohrer is not.

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Your Turn / Re: Megan Rohrer sues ELCA

« on: March 03, 2023, 07:19:27 PM »

I predict this suit will be thrown out of court, which does not mean that it will not accomplish its main goal, publicity and fame for the deposed bishop.

A clear lack of conscientization on your part, Charles.  The only question is whether Trans is speaking or whether Whiteness is acting in the disguise of Trans.  If indeed fame and publicity are the goal, it is a clear sign that White is lurking in the shadows.  On the other hand, it really could be an attack on Trans by Cis.  As we know, Cis and White often collude to maintain power. 

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Your Turn / Re: Megan Rohrer sues ELCA

« on: March 03, 2023, 06:56:38 PM »

Meghan Rohrer's suit follows the same logic as the Bishop Eaton's apology to Iglesia Santa Maria Peregrina.  Both follow a strange but consistent form of Idealism, which asserts that universals are more real than individuals.  Actually, it goes so far as denying that true individuals even exist. So, when Bishop Eaton issued her apology, it was not an individual apology for her own actions, but an apology on behalf of several universals, including the ELCA and Whiteness.  The ELCA and Whiteness were responsible for Eaton's failure to respond adequately to the actions of then Bishop Rohrer.

It is perfectly, reasonable for former Bishop Rohrer to see themself not as an individual with moral agency, but an instance of the universal known as Trans.  As an instance of the universal Trans, they is the victim of the universal known as Cis.  Part of the essence of Cis is to oppress.  Part of the essence of Trans is to be a victim of Cis.  Through the false ideology of "individual responsibility" oppressive universals such as Cis, Hetero, White, and Male, seek to disguise their oppression of Trans.  Holding former Bishop Rohrer individually responsible for their actions is to perpetual Cis-hetero-white-male oppression of Trans.

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Your Turn / Re: God Wants ALL to be saved! But what about Tyre and Sidon?

« on: February 28, 2023, 01:37:02 PM »

Isn't faith the assurance of things hoped for?

Yes.  Living by faith in medias res is different from knowledge apart from faith.  Resolving the tension between judgement and grace, free will and predestination, despair and presumption apart from faith is something else.  Answering that question logically and systematically would require that one had the point of view of the author, not that of a character caught in the middle of the story.

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Your Turn / Re: God Wants ALL to be saved! But what about Tyre and Sidon?

« on: February 28, 2023, 11:42:41 AM »

Just a couple thoughts:

1.  Although the Law/Gospel distinction can and has been overapplied and misapplied by Lutherans, I still wonder if I can risk using it here.  Might the attempt to resolve the question of who is saved and who isn't, why free grace wouldn't save all, and how to avoid either eternal reprobation or a universalism that fails to justice to Scripture, be an attempt to resolve the tension between Law and Gospel apart from faith?

2.  If we take a narrative rather than a logical/systematic approach to question, might that suggest an answer to our dilemma?  The reason that we cannot resolve the tension between free will and election, judgment and grace, reprobation and universalism, law and gospel, is that like all good stories, the tension cannot be fully resolved until the end.  If the tension is resolved at the beginning or in the middle, we stop reading and put the book down.  More importantly, since we are characters in the story and not the author, it's not our place to know how the tension is resolved.  We have to act our part.  In other words, we have to live and act in hope. 

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Your Turn / Re: Dr. Robert Gagnon opposes Lutheran view of Lord's Supper and "closed communion"

« on: February 16, 2023, 12:27:29 PM »

Perhaps we should be grateful that Dr. Gagnon is still offended by Lutheran doctrine.  Kudos to the LCMS for being called out by name.  I sometimes wonder whether one of the unintended consequences of ecumenical dialogue is the dogmatic dissolution of most of the churches involved.  While the intent was to leave enough ambiguity in our joint statements to allow for agreement, the effect was to leave gaps large enough to drive a heresy through.  While we have become more open to other Christians, we have also become open to the non-Christian ideas and movements that would destroy the Church.  My denomination does not have full communion with the PCA, ACNA, or the LCMS, but I seem to have more in common with any of them than I do with the PCUSA, UMC, UCC, or TEC.

As a very traditional son of Our Holy Mother the Church of England, I do find that in the modern age, I have more in common with the conservative Lutheran Churches than I do with some of the liberal Anglicans in other national Anglican Churches, or even other Anglicans in the Church of England. My acceptance of female clergy though, makes me a bit of an oddball, since my MORAL views remain as conservative as ever.

One of the nice things about churches with clear boundaries is that we both know where we stand.  When I have lunch with the pastor of the PCA church across the road, we already know where our disagreements lie.  We don't have to hash it out every time we meet.  The same is true when I talk to LCMS pastors, I know exactly where we differ.  There are no surprises.

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Your Turn / Re: Dr. Robert Gagnon opposes Lutheran view of Lord's Supper and "closed communion"

« on: February 16, 2023, 12:14:39 PM »

Perhaps we should be grateful that Dr. Gagnon is still offended by Lutheran doctrine.  Kudos to the LCMS for being called out by name.  I sometimes wonder whether one of the unintended consequences of ecumenical dialogue is the dogmatic dissolution of most of the churches involved.  While the intent was to leave enough ambiguity in our joint statements to allow for agreement, the effect was to leave gaps large enough to drive a heresy through.  While we have become more open to other Christians, we have also become open to the non-Christian ideas and movements that would destroy the Church.  My denomination does not have full communion with the PCA, ACNA, or the LCMS, but I seem to have more in common with any of them than I do with the PCUSA, UMC, UCC, or TEC.

14

Selected Re-Prints / Re: Orality, Intertextuality, and the Revised Common Lectionary, by Amy C. Schifrin

« on: February 14, 2023, 03:02:48 PM »

Word count. Number of printed pages. Eschewing extemporizing. Oral practice.
It ain’t rocket surgery to keep one’s sermons a particular length.
Or a big clock facing you in the pulpit.

If in doubt, write it out.  The "ums" that you say while you're trying to remember what wanted to say next can add five minutes.

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Selected Re-Prints / Re: Orality, Intertextuality, and the Revised Common Lectionary, by Amy C. Schifrin

« on: February 13, 2023, 07:39:44 PM »

The RCL rejected discarded the Christocentric lens and thematic OT lessons for a more or less lectio continuo approach; which, as Frank Senn properly noted and objected, confused a Eucharistic lectionary with Bible Study. 

I still don't see what makes the RCL better than other options.  If the focus is on the Eucharist and not Bible study, then why have a three-year lectionary.  A one-year lectionary should do just a well.  The logic seems to be that with a three-year lectionary, more of Scripture is covered.  But if the focus isn't Bible study, why would that matter?  Another problem with the RCL is that are two options during the Season of Pentecost.  There is more variation within the RCL than there is between the RCL lectionary used by Lutherans and the LCMS three-year lectionary. 

The focus is Bible reading (or listening), not Bible study. Especially in the daily prayer liturgies, a sermon was not traditionally part of Matins, Vespers, Compline, etc. The reading of scriptures, including the psalms and NT canticles sung at these services, was sufficient to hear God speaking to us.

The two options come from two different traditions. The Roman, Episcopalian, and Lutheran tradition had a 1st Reading that was related to one of the other readings (during the Pentecost season). Other Protestants used a semi-continuous Old Testament readings (during the Pentecost season.) The RCL is a bit of a compromise between the original Roman Catholic three-year lectionary, the Episcopalian and Lutheran adaptations of it; and the Protestant Common Lectionary used by others.

I understand the argument for a common lectionary across denominations.  I understand the value of using a lectionary that is closely tied to the Church Year and to traditional themes that are found in historical lectionaries.  I just don't understand how the sequence utilized in the RCL is more suitable for the Eucharist than something like the Narrative Lectionary, which is still Christocentric and which takes note of the Church Year.

Having been in ecumenical pericope study groups, having a common lectionary was quite important.

The RCL has many more thematic dates related to the church year, e.g., each Sunday in Advent, the temptation of Jesus, than I've seen in the Narrative lectionary.

Yes.  There are many reasons that make the RCL preferrable.   I understand all of that. It's the one sentence that I'm having a hard time understanding.  How do the selections in the RCL better suit the Eucharist?  Not ecumenical Bible studies.  Not the Church Year.  Not short sermons.  The Eucharist.

Methinks you are using a too narrow definition of "the Eucharist." I see it as the entire communion liturgy, which is set within the Church Year. The lessons set the theme for the day within the church year. Some examples: 1 Advent is the second coming; 2 & 3 Advent center on John the Baptist preparing the way, 4 Advent looks to the promised coming of infant Jesus. "Advent" means "coming." "Epiphany" is about revealing Jesus. 1 Epiphany is the Baptism of Jesus; Last Epiphany is the Transfiguration of Jesus - These "white" Sundays with God revealing that Jesus is his son, form bookends to the "green" Epiphany season in between. Similarly, the "white" Holy Trinity (1 Pentecost) and optional "white" now Christ the King (Last Pentecost) form bookends to the "green" Pentecost season.

The chart I attached above can help show how such themes show up in each year, as well as how we go through the major Gospel for the year (during the "green" seasons) and emphasize John during Lent and Easter. The RCL covers a lot of Scriptures over the three years as well as highlighting the themes of the Church Year - which are celebrated in the Eucharistic liturgy.

Tick tock.  Tick tock.