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Messages - Chuck

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1
It appears that Bishop Eaton is proceeding with a disciplinary hearing. Somehow this needs to happen around the churchwide assembly in August.

Can anyone recall how those proceedings are conducted? Who's there? Where will the location be? Are elected ELCA officials presiding or is it an employee of the denomination?

There haven't been many disciplinary hearings in the short life of the ELCA. I can only recall Rev. Bradley Schmeling in the Southeastern Synod over his same-sex relationship prior to 2009. Have there been any others? Or do ecclesiastical court proceedings go against being "inclusive"? :)


ELCA Constitution:
20.21.01. The churchwide Committee on Discipline shall consist of 24–36 members, half of whom should be rostered ministers (including at least two ministers of Word and Service) and half of whom should be laypersons, elected by the Churchwide Assembly for a term of six years. Each member will serve until a successor is elected, without consecutive re-election, and will serve as needed on a discipline hearing committee in any of the synods in this church.


20.21.02. The churchwide Committee of Hearing Officers shall consist of six to nine persons elected by the Church Council for a term of six years, each without consecutive re-election, to serve as needed on a discipline hearing committee in any of the synods of this church.

2
Your Turn / Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« on: June 11, 2022, 04:13:30 PM »
As for inflation, it happens. I doubt it’s anyone’s fault, it’s part of the whole “free market“ thing that you Republicans are supposed to honor.


It is clearly Biden's and Democrat's fault. (Yes, and a couple of Republican's) Anytime there is excess money in the financial system, there will be inflation, and when there is an extra $4.85 BILLION in the system, twice a normal year's budget, as Biden and cohorts have given us, there will be raging inflation. Couple that with the supply chain problems,  and it is not surprise we are where we are.

3
Your Turn / Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« on: June 09, 2022, 12:33:50 PM »

Name a single Right Wing/Republican Presidential assassin. From Booth on down.

All the Left Wing bombings in the 60s and 70s.

All the original skyjackings

What happened on January 6 2021 was disgusting, and Trump lost. But that does not erase the long and illustrious history of Left wing political terror in this country.


Not to mention the burning and looting of multiple cities while calling for defunding of law enforcement.

4
The resolution is a bit more complicated than that. It first asks that the bishop resign, but then says that if the bishop does not resign by the end of the assembly, the assembly petitions the committee on appeals to dismiss the bishop, and directs the synod executive committee to temporarily suspend the bishop (with compensation/benefits continuing). It also emphasizes that the resolution should not be construed as affirmation of Pastor Rabell-Gonzalez, whose ouster by the bishop was the flash point of the controversy.

They are voting now; it requires 2/3 and it is to be a secret written ballot, so it will take a while to count it.


And it doesn't have a ... chance.

5
Your Turn / Re: Congregation sued by ELCA
« on: May 26, 2022, 11:16:18 PM »
Established after 1987 or formerly LCA the Synod owns the property, held in trust by the congregation.

(Amazed I can remember these governing documents after 11 years)


Actually, you don't.


Congregations have always held title to the property, and so are the "owners". What you remember is that in the LCA and the Elca after 1987, there is a clause in their constitutions that, upon dissolution, any remaining property reverts to the synod.

6
Your Turn / Re: American Lutherans--Where Are We?
« on: April 25, 2022, 04:01:06 PM »
Was Pr. Heinemeier the brother of Pr. James Heinemeier, who served in the Sierra Pacific Synod of the ELCA for many years?

Funny anecdote:
I tried to recruit John a couple of time to serve in Oakland, but he always turned it down. Jim told me it was because none of the congregations were in bad enough position for John to resurrect.

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Your Turn / Re: American Lutherans--Where Are We?
« on: April 25, 2022, 03:57:25 PM »
Was Pr. Heinemeier the brother of Pr. James Heinemeier, who served in the Sierra Pacific Synod of the ELCA for many years?
Yes

8
Your Turn / Re: What Were They Thinking?
« on: April 09, 2022, 09:58:22 PM »
We do not own a radio station.  We purchase time between 8:00 and 9:00 AM on Sunday mornings.  I believe the Bible Baptist church is on before us and Trinity (ELCA) afterwards, but I could be wrong as I am kinda busy at that time.  I think the station charges us $125 for the roughly one hour we get.  I always say it is the best money we spend: LOTS of non-members listen (including many members of other churches, as they get ready for their own services later in the morning).  Shortly after I arrived in Crookston, I got a letter from a woman near the Canadian border who said if the weather cooperated, she listened to us weekly.  The radio station is now available via internet and so a few years back we had a former member and her husband listen north of the Arctic Circle where they were teaching Eskimo children.


Thanks you. Makes more sense.

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Your Turn / Re: What Were They Thinking?
« on: April 09, 2022, 05:38:54 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Me:
No, you are not “forced.” You have accepted limitations on your liturgies because you want them on the radio. (And just how does radio do liturgy?)
Wow. Really contorting yourself to be contrarian here. The meaning is obvious. The radio format constrains service times just like the drive between services constrains service times, so they don’t do extra long services. Sheesh. Nobody was blaming it on the radio station.


Wrong, Peter. The FCC requires station identification at the top-of-the-hour, but there is no regulation limiting how long a program lasts. You own the station, so a program can be an hour, 10 hours, or 1:12 hours.

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Your Turn / Re: Reading the Evangelical Heritage Version
« on: March 10, 2022, 07:30:52 PM »
Genesis 17:12
"money." The note points out this is literally silver, which is important to the cultural setting. There was no coinage at this early time, just bit-silver or gold. I wonder whether the translation "money" is necessary.
RSV uses "money," "he that was bought with your money."

I'm curious about your statement that there was no coinage at the time that is referred to or at the time this account was written. When are you thinking about, and when did coinage begin?

Peace,
Michael

Coinage shows up in the seventh century. I think it becomes common in the Persian Era. The Books of Moses present themselves as compiled in the fifteenth century and Genesis reaches back centuries earlier. Genesis 37:28 tells us that Joseph sold for twenty bits of silver, which was the going price from the patriarchal era according to ANE literature. (It's interesting that the EHV for Genesis 37:28 has "pieces of silver.")


If you meant seventh century bc, that would be correct. The oldest coins that have been found are from Anatolian kingdom of Lydia, approximately 630 bc

11
Your Turn / Re: A question about The Lord of the Rings
« on: February 08, 2022, 08:27:09 PM »
"Content not available"

12
Your Turn / Re: Seminex in Print
« on: December 21, 2021, 09:45:29 PM »
The ELCA has three interdependent expressions of "church": the congregation, the synod, and the churchwide expression. Any one of those can be called "church." Thus, when the synod is in assembly, it is church. When we talk about the call being through the agency of the church, it involves all three expressions. As an ordained pastor in the ELCA (meaning: I'm on its roster of ministers of word and sacrament,) I can preach and preside at any ELCA congregation (at their invitation, or at the request of a synod bishop) and at any congregation of our full partner church bodies (at their invitation). It is our synods who are responsible for the rostering. The synod council can remove pastors from the roster. Pastors' synodical membership gets transferred when they move to a new synod.

The bolded portion is new to me, Brian. 

New to me, too. Can you cite the constitutional provision that allows this?


The particular circumstances that were in my memory were pastors who were "on leave from call" 7.31.07.


In researching this, there's also 7.43.01 when a pastor under call from the Synod Council is no longer in that Call.


I think we have a semantic problem here. A pastor may only be placed "on leave from call" on the recommendation of the bishop and approval of the synod council. So, a pastor is not "removed" by the synod council, but simply not approved for that status.

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Your Turn / Re: Seminex in Print
« on: December 20, 2021, 01:59:08 PM »
The "slow motion schism" is still in motion, at least into the NALC, and I would suspect the LCMC as well.  It's a couple of dozen churches a year, but it continues.
Don't think anybody's trying to write any sort of scholarly history yet, though Mark Granquist mentions it briefly in his history of American Lutheranism.


A small quibble...
Actually, the number of congregations withdrawing from the ELCA the past couple of years has been 10-13, not "a couple of dozen."

14
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: October 06, 2021, 10:10:28 PM »

Bunk! Peer review means that other scientist at other institutions, who do not have the same agenda-drive processes, do the same experiment and reach the same conclusions - or their experiment shows the errors in the original conclusions.

No, Brian. You might spend 3 minutes on youtube learning what peer review means..Peer Review in 3 Minutes

The scandal of disreputable journals has been around for a long time.

15
Your Turn / Re: Definition and Purpose(s) of Confirmation
« on: May 19, 2021, 11:34:27 PM »
(I believe that in the Roman Catholic Church and Anglican Communion, bishops still officiate at confirmation services. This is one reason why The Episcopal Church has about 100 diocese where the ELCA has 65 synods; while they have about have the membership of the ELCA.)

Actually, the membership for 2019 was:
ELCA = 3,265,581
Episcopal = 1,637,945

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