Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Rob Morris

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 42
1
Your Turn / Re: March for Life
« on: January 24, 2022, 11:41:25 PM »
Pastor Morris:
2/3 of American Lutherans are pro-choice? Citation, please.
Me:
Pew research, which, by the way, says nearly half of the Missouri Synod members polled believe abortion should be legal in most cases.

Can you share a link, please? The pew research I found said 60% of Mainline Protestants, and only 37% of Evangelical Protestants, without further breakdown by denomination. https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion/

Nevermind: found it. https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-denomination/lutheran-church-missouri-synod/views-about-abortion/

2
Your Turn / Re: March for Life
« on: January 24, 2022, 11:24:57 PM »
Pastor Morris:
2/3 of American Lutherans are pro-choice? Citation, please.
Me:
Pew research, which, by the way, says nearly half of the Missouri Synod members polled believe abortion should be legal in most cases.

Can you share a link, please? The pew research I found said 60% of Mainline Protestants, and only 37% of Evangelical Protestants, without further breakdown by denomination. https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion/

3
Your Turn / Re: March for Life
« on: January 24, 2022, 09:07:04 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
So, in your view, only those who not pro-life ought be allowed as moderators?

Me:
Don’t be ridiculous. You know that’s not what I said. But one who refers to 2/3 of American Lutherans as  Judas, I wonder.

2/3 of American Lutherans are pro-choice? Citation, please.

4
Your Turn / Re: Neglect, mental health, and resignation
« on: January 21, 2022, 08:49:38 PM »
Add my prayers to those already expressed here, along with my sincere assurances of sympathy and support. You mentioned something about dealing with pastoral grief. Is that something you’d be willing to unpack a bit, either on the thread or in a private message? As you may suspect, it’s an area where I have spent a fair bit of time. More than happy to be a support in any way I can. I appreciate and respect your honesty.

5
Your Turn / Re: Political/cultural/religious division
« on: January 18, 2022, 01:57:49 PM »

Starr - Dowler - Touchdown.  They live on and on.  Rodgers - Adams - Touchdown: may the dance continue Saturday night.

Dave Benke

Mahomes - Kelce - Touchdown.

Mahomes - Hill - Touchdown.

Mahomes - some random offensive lineman - Touchdown.

Mahomes Magic - Touchdown.

May it reign for a long time.

Easier conference by far.  The Packers have to get through the 49ers, then either the Bucs or Rams.  Tough matches, top to bottom. 

But I'm OK with this - may the Chiefs and Packers meet in LA!

Dave Benke

PS - we don't have this page anymore on our site, but it's worth reaching out to Jim and Rob at least that two of the great stalwart pastors and leaders of the New England District were taken to be with the Lord over the weekend - District President Tim Yeadon and Ingo Dutzmann.  There's a great picture of the two of them at www.ned-lcms.org.  Rest in peace, faithful Gospel warriors.

Thank you, sir. Two dear friends who fiercely loved the Lord, fiercely loved his church, and dedicated their lives to the service of both. They will be sorely missed, not just in the weeks ahead but in the decades that they would have continued to serve. 1/16 was a tough day for our district, though we celebrate their eternal joy.

6
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Architecture
« on: January 15, 2022, 02:21:07 PM »
I would add to the discussion, though it is a bit of a side track from Lutheran architecture, what about the preaching of seminarians in field work congregations? They are not ordained or called. What about the preaching of vicars? They are neither ordained nor called.

The historical context of the article in the confession is that the Lutherans were accused of letting anyone lead the worship services… Something the more radical reformers would embrace. The Lutherans were wishing to assure that they have a structure and order over who can preach. In modern times, that has been married on a one to one relationship with ordination. At least, in theory. But the situation of fieldwork preachers and vicars shows that it is not actually one to one.

I think that being rightly called did not and does not equate to ordination or possessing a certificate of the divine call.

And that doesn’t even touch on the teaching part… Does anyone really believe that no one should teach in the church who is not both ordained and called? That only pastors can do any teaching?

All that said, I believe that under ordinary circumstances, every conceivable effort should be made to have ordained pastors preaching and leading the worship services.

1. When I had vicars, I required that I approve all sermons they preached.  In effect, I (the called pastor) was responsible for what they preached.  I would assume it is the same with seminarians preaching in field education churches, or (as happened just a few weeks ago here) when a seminarian returns to his home congregation and preaches -- the called pastor reads/approves what is preached.

2. In a related way, I supervise those who teach Sunday school and VBS and at our parochial school.  They act under my call/authority.  Because I cannot be present to hear all their actual words/teaching, we insist on using curriculum that I approve -- from synodical sources, usually.  And if they teach false doctrine, it is MY responsibility.

I agree with everything you are saying. I only point out that, on a practical level, it means that “we do not allow anyone to teach or preach without a rightly ordered call UNLESS directly overseen by one who has such”. That is an alteration from AC XIV. I think it is a reasonable application of AC XIV’s intent, but it isn’t exactly what’s written.

Then, the discussion has to turn to: a stranger, sent to us by the seminary, can preach under the pastor’s direction and oversight, but an elder, known to our congregation and chosen by them for  spiritual leadership may not?

Some would say, “Never!”. Some would say, “Have at it!” And in between would be those who would say: “Only under certain circumstances.” All could still viably claim AC XIV’s blessing. I fall in the middle … only under certain circumstances. And never as the regular practice.

7
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Architecture
« on: January 15, 2022, 12:06:31 PM »
I would add to the discussion, though it is a bit of a side track from Lutheran architecture, what about the preaching of seminarians in field work congregations? They are not ordained or called. What about the preaching of vicars? They are neither ordained nor called.

The historical context of the article in the confession is that the Lutherans were accused of letting anyone lead the worship services… Something the more radical reformers would embrace. The Lutherans were wishing to assure that they have a structure and order over who can preach. In modern times, that has been married on a one to one relationship with ordination. At least, in theory. But the situation of fieldwork preachers and vicars shows that it is not actually one to one.

I think that being rightly called did not and does not equate to ordination or possessing a certificate of the divine call.

And that doesn’t even touch on the teaching part… Does anyone really believe that no one should teach in the church who is not both ordained and called? That only pastors can do any teaching?

All that said, I believe that under ordinary circumstances, every conceivable effort should be made to have ordained pastors preaching and leading the worship services.

8
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Architecture
« on: January 14, 2022, 10:29:12 PM »
Our sanctuary is oriented to the East, and had the pulpit to the left and ambo/lectern to the right... BUT... when Covid struck, all our sound system and power supply was to the right, so the pulpit and ambo/lectern had to switch because of the livestream camera sight-lines. It will probably remain thus for as long as live-streaming remains, which will probably last the lifetime of the internet at this point. I give it a couple more thousand years or so, tops. (HT if you recognize the song lyric reference in that last sentence)

Since then, I have been noticing how haphazard the location of pulpit vs. ambo/lectern is, at least in our circuit and district. I would say we are 60/40 pulpit on left, in my recollection. I am unaware of any that are in the center or above the altar. But I am very familiar with front-and-center from my baptist days (except on baptism Sundays) and my pentecostal days (if the preacher used the music stand at all).

9
Your Turn / Re: Political/cultural/religious division
« on: January 12, 2022, 05:26:27 PM »
The Lutheran doctrine that we can achieve some measure of civil righteousness is not something that was talked about much. The emphasis was always on how sinful we are. We are also people who have been gifted by God with good gifts for use within the community.

Not talked about much by whom? Melanchthon covers it pretty thoroughly in the Apology.

Which still doesn't explain why FC I was foreign to you... but I think your answer, with its praise of Judaic and Cherokee thought, was (perhaps unintentionally) quite clarifying.

10
Your Turn / Re: Political/cultural/religious division
« on: January 12, 2022, 11:21:11 AM »
At least I gave you quotes from the Confessions. A quick search for "essential goodness within humanity" didn't give me any hits in the Book of Concord. Can you give a reference for your quotes?

...quotes provided...

I agree.

Not trying to be a jerk, but did you really not know how explicit FC I is on this? Or maybe it slipped your recollection? Or was this some odd Socratic method?

Like I said, not trying to be a jerk, but I am puzzled by your failed search and subsequent need for a reference regarding such a clearly-presented and primary Lutheran doctrine.

11
Your Turn / Re: Political/cultural/religious division
« on: January 11, 2022, 10:14:37 PM »
I don’t know if it’s the passage Pr. Butler has in mind, but FC I is pretty clear: “We believe, teach, and confess that original sin is not a slight, but so deep a corruption of human nature that nothing healthy or uncorrupt has remained in man’s body or soul, in his inner or outward powers… (Ep. 3)

Human nature itself is not sin, but there remains no beachhead within us that sin has not twisted or stained. Appeals to the better angels of our nature will inevitably end in disappointment. Thus, my own political philosophy prefers those approaches that put guards against human  sinfulness, rather than those that assume human goodness. It’s why I believe that communism will always fail, while democracy at least has a puncher’s chance. A republic democracy is even better… if you can keep it.

12
Your Turn / Re: Seminex Profs
« on: January 09, 2022, 07:46:38 AM »
In a few hours, if the freezing rain holds off, my congregation will have the second week of our study of the Smalcald Articles, using Concordia as the text. Last year, we did the Confession and Apology. Next year in the winter, or perhaps this Fall, we will do the Formula. That will complete the second tour through the book of Concord since I started here.

 I make a “Cliff’s Notes” study sheet for each session, but each time through, I order a few more copies of Concordia for any congregation members attending classes who do not yet own one. It has been a blessing in my church, for sure!

13
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: January 04, 2022, 02:24:11 PM »
If in order to fight this, we have to cope with the fact that children might miss a year of school, is that the end of the world? Or have we become so soft that we can’t take any amount of suffering even in the face of a deadly enemy?
So rather than putting children in more danger by exposing them to more possibilities of infections which they can carry on to their grandparents, let’s make some plans for how we are going to make up what they are losing right now in their education.

In other words, as the NY Times article stated: "They have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults."

Doesn't sound very honorable to me, but obviously, your mileage may vary.

You yourself were just pounding the table for a willingness to change your views when data changes. Kids are falling behind, perhaps irretrievably, exhibiting increased mental health issues, and even dying from raised suicide rates. These are established statistical realities. Meanwhile, in your most recent post, you're doubling down on mitigation strategies as being "inconveniences" and "annoyances". It sure starts to read like commitment bias/sunk-cost fallacy.

I am genuinely curious - at what point would you re-evaluate your position if not when the NY Times is saying that our current course is harming kids in order to prevent harm to adults?

Put another way: if how to contain the virus is supposed to change as data changes (as you yourself said last night), shouldn't this data indicate a change of course is needed?

14
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: January 04, 2022, 07:53:47 AM »
Here’s the answer to your question of “so what”, from The NY Times Morning newsletter:

For the past two years, however, many communities in the U.S. have not really grappled with the trade-off. They have tried to minimize the spread of Covid — a worthy goal absent other factors — rather than minimizing the damage that Covid does to society. They have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults, often without acknowledging the dilemma or assessing which decisions lead to less overall harm.

Given the choices that the country has made, it should not be surprising that children are suffering so much.

All along, you have Pooh-poohed every side effect of Covid lockdowns and restrictions, saying they are minimal sacrifices and worth it. Maybe it’s your view that is past due for a change.

15
Your Turn / Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« on: December 29, 2021, 09:17:24 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  I edited it.  Would you please edit your also?  Thanks!

Done! And now, just the congratulations remain unchanged. 😁

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 42