ALPB Forum Online

ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 08:26:36 AM

Title: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 08:26:36 AM
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Dave Benke on December 08, 2021, 11:00:17 AM
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.

A good project for the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau.  Trusted products for a trusting market, expandable to a global audience.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Charles Austin on December 08, 2021, 11:02:52 AM
Great idea, Bishop Benke.
Would it still work if all the professors weren’t from the Concordias?
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: DeHall1 on December 08, 2021, 11:18:08 AM
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.

I got a "bad gateway" error when attempting to access the Cyclopedia.lcms.org website....This is typically due to a server issue.  I used the help function on LCMS.ORG to ask if the site was down temporarily or if it had been taken down altogether.   Once I get a response, I'll post an update.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht =topic=8040.msg511758#msg511758 date=1638969996
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.

I got a "bad gateway" error when attempting to access the Cyclopedia.lcms.org website....This is typically a due to a server issue.  I used the help function on LCMS.ORG to ask if the site was down temporarily or if it had been taken down altogether.   Once I get a response, I'll post an update.

Thanks for your technical expertise.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 11:41:40 AM
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.

A good project for the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau.  Trusted products for a trusting market, expandable to a global audience.

Dave Benke

I believe the text is owned by the LCMS or CPH. I don't think it is likely they would give ALPB permission to update it. There was also a Lutheran Encyclopedia published. To my knowledge no one has updated that either. Not sure who owns the rights.

There are many fine Christian encyclopedic works out there but having something tradition-specific is very valuable, answering questions and providing insights that others will not include. For example, the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church is a great desk resource. (This was the quality I was aiming for in the planned project.) However, ODCC is very much aimed at Anglican concerns and therefore less helpful to a Lutheran, which is why I had planned the project for CPH. People who want to understand the Lutheran tradition would really value such a resource.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Jim Butler on December 08, 2021, 11:50:36 AM
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.

A good project for the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau.  Trusted products for a trusting market, expandable to a global audience.

Dave Benke

I believe the text is owned by the LCMS or CPH. I don't think it is likely they would give ALPB permission to update it. There was also a Lutheran Encyclopedia published. To my knowledge no one has updated that either. Not sure who owns the rights.

There are many fine Christian encyclopedic works out there but having something tradition-specific is very valuable, answering questions and providing insights that others will not include. For example, the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church is a great desk resource. (This was the quality I was aiming for in the planned project.) However, ODCC is very much aimed at Anglican concerns and therefore less helpful to a Lutheran, which is why I had planned the project for CPH. People who want to understand the Lutheran tradition would really value such a resource.

CPH owns the copyright to the Christian Cyclopedia (formerly the Lutheran Cyclopedia).

The other major work is the three-volume Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church (Augsburg, 1965). That has been out of print for years. I wonder if Fortress would be willing to let ALPB update it.

Then there is the Dictionary of Luther and the Lutheran Traditions (Baker, 2017). It's an interesting resource, but not as in-depth as the Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church.

I'm truly sad that your project never saw fruition, Ed. Sounds like a winner.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 12:48:14 PM
I went looking for the Christian Cyclopedia this morning to check on a historical practice. A digital edition was on the synod's website but is now down, which is too bad. It is a great resource.

When I was at CPH, I drew up a three volume plan for updating the entire work with scholar-signed articles. It was to be published as:

Vol. 1, Biblical Studies
Vol. 2, Historical Studies
Vol. 3, Doctrinal Studies

One was to include liturgy/worship, too. (Can't recall whether those articles would go in volume 2 or 3.)

I had lined up about 30 scholars from throughout the Concordias to start on volume 1. It appears that the work was never advanced by the team after me. Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Cyclopedia available again? It is a valuable resource.

A good project for the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau.  Trusted products for a trusting market, expandable to a global audience.

Dave Benke

I believe the text is owned by the LCMS or CPH. I don't think it is likely they would give ALPB permission to update it. There was also a Lutheran Encyclopedia published. To my knowledge no one has updated that either. Not sure who owns the rights.

There are many fine Christian encyclopedic works out there but having something tradition-specific is very valuable, answering questions and providing insights that others will not include. For example, the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church is a great desk resource. (This was the quality I was aiming for in the planned project.) However, ODCC is very much aimed at Anglican concerns and therefore less helpful to a Lutheran, which is why I had planned the project for CPH. People who want to understand the Lutheran tradition would really value such a resource.

CPH owns the copyright to the Christian Cyclopedia (formerly the Lutheran Cyclopedia).

The other major work is the three-volume Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church (Augsburg, 1965). That has been out of print for years. I wonder if Fortress would be willing to let ALPB update it.

Then there is the Dictionary of Luther and the Lutheran Traditions (Baker, 2017). It's an interesting resource, but not as in-depth as the Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church.

I'm truly sad that your project never saw fruition, Ed. Sounds like a winner.

What mystifies me is why they didn't just turn the project over to another editor. We had just finished a similar project with good success: Lutheran Bible Companion, 2 Vols. They might have worked with one of the associate editors for TLSB, which would have slowed the project down but would have let it come forward.

I should probably add, J., That I never thought of the projects as my projects. I always did them for the good of the church. In fact, the first book I published for CPH did not have my name on it---intentionally. I left it off intending that it should be for God's glory and not for my own. After it came out and was widely received, I was chastened by a seminary professor for "not taking responsibility for my work." From there forward I put my name on what I published so that I and not others might bear the responsibility. All that name recognition I received might have been avoided. I was always the workhorse and never the show pony.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Dave Benke on December 08, 2021, 01:44:28 PM
I don't think anyone has the rights to the word/concept of Cyclopedia or Encyclopedia.  It would have a different beginning, or else a replacement for the word "Cyclopedia" with another word.   The resource I used for years was the Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (IDB).  Very useful. 

ALPB would not be limited denominationally if it put together a compendium resource.  We had the incredible two-person team of Schumacher and Zelenko taking care of For All The Saints.  Bigger team = bigger job, but certainly not impossible. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: DeHall1 on December 08, 2021, 04:02:38 PM
The http://cyclopedia.lcms.org/ website is back online.   Looks like it was a server issue that the LCMS.org "Web team" (their words, not mine) resolved.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Dave Benke on December 08, 2021, 04:51:15 PM
From the ALPB perspective, the question to Ed is whether you'd be open to working on a project using authors not exclusively LCMS or WELS/ELS. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 09:07:31 PM
From the ALPB perspective, the question to Ed is whether you'd be open to working on a project using authors not exclusively LCMS or WELS/ELS. 

Dave Benke

If you look at TLSB closely, you'll notice that for that prominent project I worked beyond the borders of LCMS and ELS/WELS.

Honestly, I was not fishing for a project when I created this thread. A parishioner asked me about Lutheran views of the rosary and I went searching for the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia, which is when I found the page to it blank. That sent me down memory lane and wondering what happened to those well-begun and approved projects I had developed. Another one was an updated edition of Fahling's Life of Christ, a wonderful project that anyone might have completed. It was almost done but it was never published. I can't understand why. There was no reason my name had to be associated with it and no reason someone else couldn't finish it. It seems like a loss to the church for such a good publication not to come forward.

I'm glad to see the Christian Cyclopedia is still available digitally. An updated edition would be greater still.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Richard Johnson on December 08, 2021, 09:49:06 PM

CPH owns the copyright to the Christian Cyclopedia (formerly the Lutheran Cyclopedia).

The other major work is the three-volume Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church (Augsburg, 1965). That has been out of print for years. I wonder if Fortress would be willing to let ALPB update it.

Then there is the Dictionary of Luther and the Lutheran Traditions (Baker, 2017). It's an interesting resource, but not as in-depth as the Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church.


I have all three of these works in my library (I actually wrote a handful of the entries for the last one, maybe ten or twelve of them). Each has pros and cons, largely related to what their intent and purpose was. The good thing about Dictionary is that it has articles on lots of people and events of the past fifty years, which obviously the others don't have because they predate them. I've found the 3-volume work to be the most useful overall, but dated.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 08, 2021, 11:07:53 PM

CPH owns the copyright to the Christian Cyclopedia (formerly the Lutheran Cyclopedia).

The other major work is the three-volume Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church (Augsburg, 1965). That has been out of print for years. I wonder if Fortress would be willing to let ALPB update it.

Then there is the Dictionary of Luther and the Lutheran Traditions (Baker, 2017). It's an interesting resource, but not as in-depth as the Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church.


I have all three of these works in my library (I actually wrote a handful of the entries for the last one, maybe ten or twelve of them). Each has pros and cons, largely related to what their intent and purpose was. The good thing about Dictionary is that it has articles on lots of people and events of the past fifty years, which obviously the others don't have because they predate them. I've found the 3-volume work to be the most useful overall, but dated.

The Baker volume looks like a great resource.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 09, 2021, 11:09:45 AM
So, on to the matter that launched the thread: use of the rosary. Resources at hand do not directly address this question, whether Lutherans made use of rosaries during and after the Reformation.

Melanchthon attributes the Marian misuse of the rosary to the Dominicans (Apology XXVII 53). The Confessions do not forbid it's use for devotion. Luther opposed it's use for attaining good works as righteousness but I cannot find him expressly forbidding it as a aid to prayer. According to Brecht, Luther used the rosary as a two kingdoms symbol for the church in contrast to the sword (vol. 2:187; mid 1520s). Duke Albert of Prussia sent Luther an amber rosary as a gift, though Brecht does not tell whether Luther used it for prayers (vol. 3:232). Does anyone have further information?
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: D. Engebretson on December 09, 2021, 11:46:13 AM
I was given a gift of a "Lutheran" rosary some years back.  It has a small wooden circle on which is inscribed pictures representing the Six Chief Parts.  Below that is one large rosary bead, followed by six smaller beads, and then a crucifix.  I'll attach a picture of it.  Not sure who still sells these.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: peter_speckhard on December 09, 2021, 12:23:10 PM
My mother uses what looks like a rosary but isn't. It is a string of stone beads of varying shapes representing her children and their spouses and children in order by family. She holds it while praying for them essentially as a memory aid so that she doesn't accidentally forget to pray for anyone.   
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Dave Benke on December 09, 2021, 12:34:59 PM
Wow - in a predominantly Roman Catholic corner of the US of A, the introduction of the rosary as a devotional aid in Lutheran churches would be an amazing thing.  I'll ask our staff, all of whom were raised in that tradition (although some have demitted to the Missouri Synod through the years).

Dave Benke
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Dan Fienen on December 09, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
In principle, the Rosary as a devotional aid would not be at all objectionable. Peter's mother's use of a Rosary like object to remind her of those for whom she would pray is a good example. I do have a couple of quibbles.


The Rosary as usually understood in the RCC devotional life seems from a Lutheran perspective perhaps a bit heavy on Mariology. Also, as simply a set of rote prayers simply repeated would trend close the praying with many words but not the heart that Jesus warned about. Simply repeating a set series of prayers, a number of times, does not necessarily increase devotion.

But none of that indicates that use of such a devotional aid is in itself bad.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: John_Hannah on December 09, 2021, 02:44:53 PM

CPH owns the copyright to the Christian Cyclopedia (formerly the Lutheran Cyclopedia).

The other major work is the three-volume Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church (Augsburg, 1965). That has been out of print for years. I wonder if Fortress would be willing to let ALPB update it.

Then there is the Dictionary of Luther and the Lutheran Traditions (Baker, 2017). It's an interesting resource, but not as in-depth as the Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church.


I have all three of these works in my library (I actually wrote a handful of the entries for the last one, maybe ten or twelve of them). Each has pros and cons, largely related to what their intent and purpose was. The good thing about Dictionary is that it has articles on lots of people and events of the past fifty years, which obviously the others don't have because they predate them. I've found the 3-volume work to be the most useful overall, but dated.

I also have all three and agree completely.

The Lutheran (Christian) Cyclopedia is useful for finding entries on obscure subjects that we might think of as trivia. I once ran across the name of Frederick Notz and was curious.

Notz, Friedrich Wilhelm August. Sure enough there it is:
________________

Notz, Frederick William Augustus; February 2, 1841–December 16, 1922). Brother of E. A. Notz*; b. Lehren-Steinsfeld, near Weinsberg, Württemberg, Ger.; educ. Maulbronn and Tübingen; private tutor; to Am. 1866; tutor Georgia 1866–68; prof. (Gettysburg) Pennsylvania Coll. 1868, Muhlenberg Coll., Allentown, Pennsylvania, 1869–72; prof. Gk. and Heb., Northwestern U., Watertown, Wisconsin, 1872–1912 (inspector 1874–81). Secy. Ger. Am. Press Assoc. 1870; pres. Ger. School Assoc. of Pennsylvania 1871. Tr. J. K. Dietrich, Institutiones catecheticae, into Ger.; ed. Schul-Zeitung 1876–94 (title changed March 1879 to Lutherische Schul-Zeitang.
___________________

Erwin Luecker taught at my prep school and the sem (later SEMINEX). He was not an exciting teacher or preacher but his mind was brilliant. The Lutheran Cyclopedia is well rounded and useful in that it also carries articles on people, institutions, and events not related to the Synodical Conference. Hundreds and hundreds of them.

Peace, JOHN
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on December 09, 2021, 06:22:34 PM
Praying with Beads (Daily Prayers for the Christian Year) by Nan Lewis Doerr and Virginia Stem Owens)  Eerdmans 2007

I have a print out I made titled Evangelical Rosary Prayers
I know an ELCA pastor in my old SWPA Synod of the ELCA used to promote their use (maybe he sold them and maybe produced the above-- not sure)  some 40 pages

bought a set of beads that had prayer cards titled "Anglican Prayer Beads" AKA ANGLICAN ROSARY   SHOMALI INC.

There were others like the above.

I used them for a time but prefer the Daily Office
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on December 09, 2021, 06:44:32 PM
If you want a truly useful/helpful/rooting repetitious prayer: The Jesus Prayer is the finest, of course.  Followed closely by the Kyrie itself.
 
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 10, 2021, 08:03:49 AM
Thanks, all, for sharing your comments. Here is the video a parishioner sent to me with his questions:

Anglican Rosary. https://youtu.be/vH7hyi655BI

I also found the following, which seems to be from an ELCA pastor or professor describing a Lutheran rosary. I think he says the ELCA actually released one. I would like to hear from ELCA members whether that is accurate or not.

Lutheran Rosary. https://youtu.be/l0Dp1_wcsaA

What I have recommended to my parishioner, who is practicing an Advent fast, is to pray the Litany, pausing to meditate on the life of Christ and to recall persons for whom to pray.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Dave Benke on December 10, 2021, 08:31:20 AM
A rosary is a garland of roses, so in the spiritual sense a garland of prayers.  Encouragements to daily prayer are a great way to tackle the curing/care of souls in the parish, whether through beads, prayer with others in visitation, or group reflections on the Word connected to daily life.  Perfect Advent conversation!

With regard to "seelsorger" and the pastoral office, the concept in the Anglican tradition of Curate as "assistant performing pastoral duties" seems an appropriate widening of the gate.  There are dedicated laity in our congregation who dial up other members and speak/pray with them almost daily.  Many of them have a congregational function - deacon or elder - but many do not have any designation.  What are they doing?  They are seelsorgers, I guess with a small "s".  And this is how the living fabric of the Body of Christ goes on through time.  It's a both/and.  The pastor/priest is the person embodying and administering the care of souls in that parish - composed of the members of the particular congregation as well as the neighborhood/town/village geographically outlined.  The pastor/priest has many official and unofficial "curates" doing the work of the Body as described so well in I Corinthians 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: John_Hannah on December 10, 2021, 09:34:14 AM
A rosary is a garland of roses, so in the spiritual sense a garland of prayers.  Encouragements to daily prayer are a great way to tackle the curing/care of souls in the parish, whether through beads, prayer with others in visitation, or group reflections on the Word connected to daily life.  Perfect Advent conversation!

With regard to "seelsorger" and the pastoral office, the concept in the Anglican tradition of Curate as "assistant performing pastoral duties" seems an appropriate widening of the gate.  There are dedicated laity in our congregation who dial up other members and speak/pray with them almost daily.  Many of them have a congregational function - deacon or elder - but many do not have any designation.  What are they doing?  They are seelsorgers, I guess with a small "s".  And this is how the living fabric of the Body of Christ goes on through time.  It's a both/and.  The pastor/priest is the person embodying and administering the care of souls in that parish - composed of the members of the particular congregation as well as the neighborhood/town/village geographically outlined.  The pastor/priest has many official and unofficial "curates" doing the work of the Body as described so well in I Corinthians 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. 

Dave Benke

Thanks, Dave. Your members are a long way from, "It's my choice!" (Whether for vaccine or abortion.)

Peace, JOHN
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on December 10, 2021, 10:46:45 AM
Thanks, all, for sharing your comments. Here is the video a parishioner sent to me with his questions:

Anglican Rosary. https://youtu.be/vH7hyi655BI (https://youtu.be/vH7hyi655BI)

I also found the following, which seems to be from an ELCA pastor or professor describing a Lutheran rosary. I think he says the ELCA actually released one. I would like to hear from ELCA members whether that is accurate or not.

Lutheran Rosary. https://youtu.be/l0Dp1_wcsaA (https://youtu.be/l0Dp1_wcsaA)

What I have recommended to my parishioner, who is practicing an Advent fast, is to pray the Litany, pausing to meditate on the life of Christ and to recall persons for whom to pray.


Here is an article in Living Lutheran about faith "practices" that could include the Rosary.
https://www.livinglutheran.org/2019/10/faith-as-practice-not-works/ (https://www.livinglutheran.org/2019/10/faith-as-practice-not-works/)


And an older article about "prayer beads."
https://www.livinglutheran.org/2012/05/learning-pray-prayer-beads/
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 10, 2021, 03:03:58 PM
Thanks, all, for sharing your comments. Here is the video a parishioner sent to me with his questions:

Anglican Rosary. https://youtu.be/vH7hyi655BI (https://youtu.be/vH7hyi655BI)

I also found the following, which seems to be from an ELCA pastor or professor describing a Lutheran rosary. I think he says the ELCA actually released one. I would like to hear from ELCA members whether that is accurate or not.

Lutheran Rosary. https://youtu.be/l0Dp1_wcsaA (https://youtu.be/l0Dp1_wcsaA)

What I have recommended to my parishioner, who is practicing an Advent fast, is to pray the Litany, pausing to meditate on the life of Christ and to recall persons for whom to pray.


Here is an article in Living Lutheran about faith "practices" that could include the Rosary.
https://www.livinglutheran.org/2019/10/faith-as-practice-not-works/ (https://www.livinglutheran.org/2019/10/faith-as-practice-not-works/)


And an older article about "prayer beads."
https://www.livinglutheran.org/2012/05/learning-pray-prayer-beads/

Thank you, Brian. Helpful to see. I'm not sure I would agree that practice was more important than doctrine for Luther, a point suggested in the first article above. He certainly emphasized faithfulness and continuity of practice when guiding the laity.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 22, 2021, 08:02:36 AM
I'm seeking to learn more about the Great Litany. Does anyone know of a commentary on its parts? I found some online material referring to Pfattacher. Does he go through it part by part?
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: John_Hannah on December 22, 2021, 08:29:57 AM
I'm seeking to learn more about the Great Litany. Does anyone know of a commentary on its parts? I found some online material referring to Pfattacher. Does he go through it part by part?

He has two pages on the Great Litany.

Peace, JOHN
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 22, 2021, 08:56:27 AM
I'm seeking to learn more about the Great Litany. Does anyone know of a commentary on its parts? I found some online material referring to Pfattacher. Does he go through it part by part?

He has two pages on the Great Litany.

Peace, JOHN

Thank you. That sounds like a good start but I'll probably seek more. I'm trying to understand the history of the text and its organization.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on December 22, 2021, 09:20:14 AM
I know reference was made to Pfatteicher's 2 pages...  and not sure where those referenced pages are because his Commentary on the LBW has 14 pages of details.  I have also enjoyed using Jeffery Rowthorn's two volumes of/on litanies The Wideness of God's Mercy, pages 21-25 has a number (6) of variations and dozens of other Litanies, both good and not so helpful.  Both the Anglicans and Episcopalians have Commentaries on their BOCP (both went with my libraries demise at retirement) but I am sure they would have some info that might be additional to the Pfatteicher stuff on the LBW.  In SWPa Synod of the ELCA we used to use the Litany in procession, mostly outside, from meeting room building to church nave as the entrance to the morning Maundy Thursday Eucharist which included the blessing of oils for synod parishes and the renewal of ordination vows (if you can feature the renewal of any vow; I might favor a sacred remembrance of a vow). 
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: John_Hannah on December 22, 2021, 09:21:50 AM
I'm seeking to learn more about the Great Litany. Does anyone know of a commentary on its parts? I found some online material referring to Pfattacher. Does he go through it part by part?

He has two pages on the Great Litany.

Peace, JOHN

Thank you. That sounds like a good start but I'll probably seek more. I'm trying to understand the history of the text and its organization.

Luther Dottier Reed probably has more; I no longer have mine.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 22, 2021, 09:44:19 AM
Grateful for resources, gentlemen. Thank you! This is why I participate on ALPB. Most helpful.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: D. Engebretson on December 22, 2021, 09:57:05 AM
I didn't see much in Reed with regard to the Litany, but you may want to also check Tim Maschke's book Gathered Guests from CPH.  Pages 417-420.

Dom Gregory Dix's The Shape of the Liturgy has some entries as well, and may be a good source of background.
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on December 22, 2021, 04:59:49 PM
I've included the following outline when I've used it.
THE GREAT LITANY
   The LITANY is probably new to most of you. It is not a prayer that we use very often. However, it is the most ancient of Christian services except for Holy Communion. Martin Luther regarded the LITANY as next to the Lord’s Prayer the very best that has come to earth.
   Christians have been using and enjoying this prayer for over 1900 years. To help you understand and appreciate this responsive prayer, the following is an outline of its contents:
Introduction
   Three-fold Kyrie (“Lord”)
   “O Christ hear us”
   Invocation of the persons of the Trinity
   Plea for grace
Three Deprecations (from deprecari, to avert by prayer) against evils and dangers. The response to these petitions is: “Good Lord, deliver us.”
Three Obsecrations (from obsecrare, to ask on religious grounds) lay the foundations on which the prayer is built. The response to these petitions is: “Help us, good Lord.”
The Supplications or prayers for ourselves are brief and included in one petition. The response to this petition is: “Save us, good Lord.”
The Confession is a one-line prayer expressing our unworthiness. It acts as a bridge between the prayers for ourselves and the prayers for others.
The Intercessions on behalf of others are the largest part of the Litany. There are five sections, each with the response, “We implore you to hear us good Lord.”
     Prayers for the church
     Prayers for the support of the weak
     Prayers for the nations
     Prayers for all sorts and conditions of humanity
     Prayers for reconciliation with our enemies and with the natural world
Conclusion
   A plea for Christ to hear
   Agnus Dei (“Lamb of God”)
   “O Christ hear us”
   Three-fold Kyrie (“Lord”)

Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: George Rahn on December 22, 2021, 05:53:48 PM
I've included the following outline when I've used it.
THE GREAT LITANY
   The LITANY is probably new to most of you. It is not a prayer that we use very often. However, it is the most ancient of Christian services except for Holy Communion. Martin Luther regarded the LITANY as next to the Lord’s Prayer the very best that has come to earth.
   Christians have been using and enjoying this prayer for over 1900 years. To help you understand and appreciate this responsive prayer, the following is an outline of its contents:
Introduction
   Three-fold Kyrie (“Lord”)
   “O Christ hear us”
   Invocation of the persons of the Trinity
   Plea for grace
Three Deprecations (from deprecari, to avert by prayer) against evils and dangers. The response to these petitions is: “Good Lord, deliver us.”
Three Obsecrations (from obsecrare, to ask on religious grounds) lay the foundations on which the prayer is built. The response to these petitions is: “Help us, good Lord.”
The Supplications or prayers for ourselves are brief and included in one petition. The response to this petition is: “Save us, good Lord.”
The Confession is a one-line prayer expressing our unworthiness. It acts as a bridge between the prayers for ourselves and the prayers for others.
The Intercessions on behalf of others are the largest part of the Litany. There are five sections, each with the response, “We implore you to hear us good Lord.”
     Prayers for the church
     Prayers for the support of the weak
     Prayers for the nations
     Prayers for all sorts and conditions of humanity
     Prayers for reconciliation with our enemies and with the natural world
Conclusion
   A plea for Christ to hear
   Agnus Dei (“Lamb of God”)
   “O Christ hear us”
   Three-fold Kyrie (“Lord”)

This is most helpful.  Thanks
Title: Re: What Happened to the Christian/Lutheran Cyclopedia?
Post by: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on December 22, 2021, 06:25:54 PM
Thanks again, folks. I've found additional insights in Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church and Luther's Works, vol. 53.