ALPB Forum Online

ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: Norman Teigen on March 09, 2021, 09:56:07 AM

Title: Seminary Education
Post by: Norman Teigen on March 09, 2021, 09:56:07 AM
Seminary education is a vital topic for Lutherans.  see https://www.livinglutheran.org/2017/02/seminary-status-check/
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Likeness on March 09, 2021, 10:07:18 AM
This article on Seminary Education is 4 years old and already outdated due to
the impact of Covid 19 on seminarians not able to attend classes on campus.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: D. Engebretson on March 09, 2021, 10:43:23 AM
COVID-19 did impact seminary education in this past year, but I don't think the article is irrelevant.  The aspect of distance learning may have been enlarged and expanded due to the pandemic, so that is an added dynamic for how the curriculum is developed overall.

The article talks about "adding degrees" beyond the usual M.Div, and that is a pattern seen in the universities and colleges as well.  CTS-FW somewhat recently added a Ph.D in Theological Studies and now has two Ph.D programs.  When I attended three plus decades ago only St. Louis offered such an option. Now pastors with an M.Div have multiple options for graduate studies: Two Ph.Ds, the STM, the D.Min. In those years since I graduated well developed graduate degrees for deaconesses have also been added, which is a great compliment to the overall program. 

I know that the issue of having more than one seminary has been discussed here, and in the article they chronicle the mergers that have occurred in the ELCA system.  Recently CTS-FW received a renewal of its accreditation, so it seems that the accrediting agency sees a future for Ft. Wayne along with another seminary in the same denominational system. 
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Benke on March 09, 2021, 10:54:54 AM
COVID-19 did impact seminary education in this past year, but I don't think the article is irrelevant.  The aspect of distance learning may have been enlarged and expanded due to the pandemic, so that is an added dynamic for how the curriculum is developed overall.

The article talks about "adding degrees" beyond the usual M.Div, and that is a pattern seen in the universities and colleges as well.  CTS-FW somewhat recently added a Ph.D in Theological Studies and now has two Ph.D programs.  When I attended three plus decades ago only St. Louis offered such an option. Now pastors with an M.Div have multiple options for graduate studies: Two Ph.Ds, the STM, the D.Min. In those years since I graduated well developed graduate degrees for deaconesses have also been added, which is a great compliment to the overall program. 

I know that the issue of having more than one seminary has been discussed here, and in the article they chronicle the mergers that have occurred in the ELCA system.  Recently CTS-FW received a renewal of its accreditation, so it seems that the accrediting agency sees a future for Ft. Wayne along with another seminary in the same denominational system.

When it comes to advanced degrees, the path I pushed as a Bishop was both advanced degrees and certifications - ie continuing education.  More important to many parish pastors are certifications in counseling, in public administration, or areas that have a direct impact on their parish work.  My STM thesis paper, on the academic side, was on a topic so arcane that the professor said it would have been automatically accepted at any graduate school for a doctorate, because just about nothing had been written on the topic. 

The other thing I'll say on advanced degrees within a system is that what I encouraged, and did myself, was to move out of my own system and into a different marketplace of ideas.  I found that healthy.  Not to say there shouldn't be advanced degrees offered within the system. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: John_Hannah on March 09, 2021, 11:24:26 AM

The other thing I'll say on advanced degrees within a system is that what I encouraged, and did myself, was to move out of my own system and into a different marketplace of ideas.  I found that healthy.  Not to say there shouldn't be advanced degrees offered within the system. 

Dave Benke

I agree heartily. It's easy to become parochial and a near isolationist without exposure beyond the Missouri Synod. Broadening can be accomplished in academic programs, service in a chaplaincy (part time or full time), and by intentional engagement with community churches and their clergy. Most of our members and all of our potential members know nothing about an insiders appreciation and knowledge of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod and actually could care less. It does not suffice to "preach only to the choir."    ;D

Peace, JOHN
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: D. Engebretson on March 09, 2021, 11:31:10 AM
COVID-19 did impact seminary education in this past year, but I don't think the article is irrelevant.  The aspect of distance learning may have been enlarged and expanded due to the pandemic, so that is an added dynamic for how the curriculum is developed overall.

The article talks about "adding degrees" beyond the usual M.Div, and that is a pattern seen in the universities and colleges as well.  CTS-FW somewhat recently added a Ph.D in Theological Studies and now has two Ph.D programs.  When I attended three plus decades ago only St. Louis offered such an option. Now pastors with an M.Div have multiple options for graduate studies: Two Ph.Ds, the STM, the D.Min. In those years since I graduated well developed graduate degrees for deaconesses have also been added, which is a great compliment to the overall program. 

I know that the issue of having more than one seminary has been discussed here, and in the article they chronicle the mergers that have occurred in the ELCA system.  Recently CTS-FW received a renewal of its accreditation, so it seems that the accrediting agency sees a future for Ft. Wayne along with another seminary in the same denominational system.

When it comes to advanced degrees, the path I pushed as a Bishop was both advanced degrees and certifications - ie continuing education.  More important to many parish pastors are certifications in counseling, in public administration, or areas that have a direct impact on their parish work.  My STM thesis paper, on the academic side, was on a topic so arcane that the professor said it would have been automatically accepted at any graduate school for a doctorate, because just about nothing had been written on the topic. 

The other thing I'll say on advanced degrees within a system is that what I encouraged, and did myself, was to move out of my own system and into a different marketplace of ideas.  I found that healthy.  Not to say there shouldn't be advanced degrees offered within the system. 

Dave Benke

I agree, and as one whose STM thesis was probably equally 'arcane' and academic, although that was pursued specifically with the desire to teach.  In my other varied avocations I have pursued and received numerous certifications and training opportunities outside the ministry. I think that they have added overall to my ministry, especially my work as an emergency services chaplain.  For most pastors it is these ongoing continuing ed. offerings that will be most advantageous.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Norman Teigen on March 09, 2021, 11:45:42 AM
As a pew sitter I must acknowledge how the times are changing.  Pastor Austin wrote this:  "Pastors prepared for greater service in the world will be teaching members how the gospel enables everyone to reach out and engage in the needs of the world, not just their own spiritual lives. This is a different image than the view that the pastor is primarily the spiritual leader of a congregation.

"New pastors, trained for this kind of outreach, may meet resistance in congregations that see the leaderís role as primarily providing care within the church walls. Those new pastors will need to have the leadership skills to handle opposition.

"But itís vital to the spiritual health of congregations and the whole ELCA, said one participant, that churches focus on missions and ministries that extend beyond the walls of individual congregations.

"Said another respondent: 'I believe we are being called to create ways in which seekers/nones/the lapsed can gain an experience of the living God. I believe we are being called to find new ways to create genuine community.' "

https://www.livinglutheran.org/2017/02/new-kind-pastor/
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Charles Austin on March 09, 2021, 12:24:49 PM
Given the slowness of most church processes, including changes in seminary education, this three-year old article is not quite out of date yet. But we can see whether what was said "back then" remains operative today.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: peterm on March 10, 2021, 10:29:29 AM
One of the the things I've noticed over the past few years (6 or so) is the rapidity of the change taking place in seminary education.  Even as a perspective internship site on the ELCA side, there is rapid change occurring regarding the structure of  the internship and the time line involved.  COVID accelerated some of this movement but even before then seminaries were rapidly changing how the engaged with their students.  Some of them, like Luther, who may have perceived themselves as too big and too important to fail, are more behind the 8 ball than smaller institutions like Wartburg, Southern or United.  We've witnessed these changes at the University level also, and at the congregational level.  Online learning, like Online worship, is here to stay.  It cannot be ignored, so the community and pastoral formation that used to take place in the rectory and other informal spaces on the seminary campus and in the classroom will look different, indeed it already does, moving into the future.  My congregations hosted one "Traditional" intern for a 12 month experience that was much like my own.  Our next will most likely be a hybrid internship, community placement over the whole four years, that includes classwork and regular trips to the seminary for  in person learning
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Likeness on March 10, 2021, 10:46:43 AM
United Lutheran Seminary in Gettysburg is led by President Guy Erwin.
He is an avowed homosexual who lives with his husband Robert Flynn.
For seminarians to have as their role model President Guy Erwin is
counterproductive.   Homosexual marriage is not affirmed in Scripture.
God instituted marriage between one man and one woman.  United
Lutheran Seminary is a slap in the face to God with its current leader.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Steven W Bohler on March 10, 2021, 10:56:46 AM
United Lutheran Seminary in Gettysburg is led by President Guy Erwin.
He is an avowed homosexual who lives with his husband Robert Flynn.
For seminarians to have as their role model President Guy Erwin is
counterproductive.   Homosexual marriage is not affirmed in Scripture.
God instituted marriage between one man and one woman.  United
Lutheran Seminary is a slap in the face to God with its current leader.

A "he" cannot have a "husband".  Nor can a "she" have a "wife".  To even use such terms (such as "his husband" or "her wife") is to give support to a lie.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Charles Austin on March 10, 2021, 11:55:19 AM
We already know what most people in this modest forum think of the president of our Philadelphia/Gettysburg seminary.
And Iím not sure the seminary president is to be considered a ďrole modelď for every student. Personally, Iím glad that the new president of our Philadelphia/Gettysburg seminary is a person who has been a pastor, a bishop, and a scholar.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Likeness on March 10, 2021, 12:31:29 PM
Our current secular culture has defined marriage as  a relationship between
two persons who love each other.  The fact that the U.S.Supreme Court has
made homosexual marriages legal does not make it morally right.  The
various religious denominations in America cannot all agree on this issue.
God's definition of marriage still has priority and defines marriage as
a lifelong commitment between one man and one woman.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Charles Austin on March 10, 2021, 04:04:51 PM
Dave Likeness writes:
God's definition of marriage still has priority and defines marriage as a lifelong commitment between one man and one woman.
I comment:
If you mean "God's definition" as something you read in the Bible, we have to note that the "definition" is subject to various interpretations and limitations and settings and times and languages and  etc., etc, etc. "God's definition" is not the same for everyone.
Do you think that those who endorse same-sex marriage believe that the endorsement is outside of a godly or faithful definition of marriage? That's not what advocates say.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on March 10, 2021, 04:39:10 PM
Our current secular culture has defined marriage as  a relationship between
two persons who love each other.  The fact that the U.S.Supreme Court has
made homosexual marriages legal does not make it morally right.  The
various religious denominations in America cannot all agree on this issue.
God's definition of marriage still has priority and defines marriage as
a lifelong commitment between one man and one woman.


It is a legal covenant between two people who commit to stay together and be faithful to each other for the rest of their lives. It is the commitment, not love, that is the basis of marriage.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Richard Johnson on March 10, 2021, 10:24:11 PM
Let's stop this. No further comment on the president of United Seminary. Your posts will be removed.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: pr dtp on March 15, 2021, 05:27:46 PM
COVID-19 did impact seminary education in this past year, but I don't think the article is irrelevant.  The aspect of distance learning may have been enlarged and expanded due to the pandemic, so that is an added dynamic for how the curriculum is developed overall.

The article talks about "adding degrees" beyond the usual M.Div, and that is a pattern seen in the universities and colleges as well.  CTS-FW somewhat recently added a Ph.D in Theological Studies and now has two Ph.D programs.  When I attended three plus decades ago only St. Louis offered such an option. Now pastors with an M.Div have multiple options for graduate studies: Two Ph.Ds, the STM, the D.Min. In those years since I graduated well developed graduate degrees for deaconesses have also been added, which is a great compliment to the overall program. 

I know that the issue of having more than one seminary has been discussed here, and in the article they chronicle the mergers that have occurred in the ELCA system.  Recently CTS-FW received a renewal of its accreditation, so it seems that the accrediting agency sees a future for Ft. Wayne along with another seminary in the same denominational system.

When it comes to advanced degrees, the path I pushed as a Bishop was both advanced degrees and certifications - ie continuing education.  More important to many parish pastors are certifications in counseling, in public administration, or areas that have a direct impact on their parish work.  My STM thesis paper, on the academic side, was on a topic so arcane that the professor said it would have been automatically accepted at any graduate school for a doctorate, because just about nothing had been written on the topic. 

The other thing I'll say on advanced degrees within a system is that what I encouraged, and did myself, was to move out of my own system and into a different marketplace of ideas.  I found that healthy.  Not to say there shouldn't be advanced degrees offered within the system. 

Dave Benke

That's why I am doing my doctorate in Worship - and at a Baptist University.
Funny thing - every class I've taken so far - has been talking about the benefits of liturgical worship rather than "free" worship.
The last class was about the theology of worship - and it was fun teaching them about the Lord's Supper... :-)
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Benke on March 15, 2021, 05:50:39 PM
COVID-19 did impact seminary education in this past year, but I don't think the article is irrelevant.  The aspect of distance learning may have been enlarged and expanded due to the pandemic, so that is an added dynamic for how the curriculum is developed overall.

The article talks about "adding degrees" beyond the usual M.Div, and that is a pattern seen in the universities and colleges as well.  CTS-FW somewhat recently added a Ph.D in Theological Studies and now has two Ph.D programs.  When I attended three plus decades ago only St. Louis offered such an option. Now pastors with an M.Div have multiple options for graduate studies: Two Ph.Ds, the STM, the D.Min. In those years since I graduated well developed graduate degrees for deaconesses have also been added, which is a great compliment to the overall program. 

I know that the issue of having more than one seminary has been discussed here, and in the article they chronicle the mergers that have occurred in the ELCA system.  Recently CTS-FW received a renewal of its accreditation, so it seems that the accrediting agency sees a future for Ft. Wayne along with another seminary in the same denominational system.

When it comes to advanced degrees, the path I pushed as a Bishop was both advanced degrees and certifications - ie continuing education.  More important to many parish pastors are certifications in counseling, in public administration, or areas that have a direct impact on their parish work.  My STM thesis paper, on the academic side, was on a topic so arcane that the professor said it would have been automatically accepted at any graduate school for a doctorate, because just about nothing had been written on the topic. 

The other thing I'll say on advanced degrees within a system is that what I encouraged, and did myself, was to move out of my own system and into a different marketplace of ideas.  I found that healthy.  Not to say there shouldn't be advanced degrees offered within the system. 

Dave Benke

That's why I am doing my doctorate in Worship - and at a Baptist University.
Funny thing - every class I've taken so far - has been talking about the benefits of liturgical worship rather than "free" worship.
The last class was about the theology of worship - and it was fun teaching them about the Lord's Supper... :-)

That's great!  The whole thing about our movement - the evangelical and catholic faith - is that it is for and about ecumenical involvement and commitment, and can be in a word productive.  Way to go.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on March 16, 2021, 10:55:09 AM
Copied this from the ILT's Facebook page.  Just some interesting figures.  Is SK Saskatchewan?  AB Alberta?  ON Ontario? 

Jeremy

Fall 2020 enrollment figures have been released at the ATS (American Theological Schools) Lutheran seminaries. Here they are by headcount:
*.Concordia Seminary (MO): 596
* Luther Seminary (MN): 502
* United Lutheran Seminary: 381
* Concordia Theological Seminary (IN): 295
* Wartburg Theological Seminary: 236
* Lutheran School of Theology Chicago: 138
* Martin Luther University College (ON): 113
* Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary: 69
* Trinity Lutheran Seminary: 54
* Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary: 46
* Lutheran Theological Seminary (SK): 23
*. Concordia Lutheran Theological Seminary (ONT): 17
*. Concordia Lutheran Seminary (AB): 5
The Institute of Lutheran Theology's fall 2020 headcount was 103, which would put it in 8th place on the list. There are a number of Lutheran Seminaries that are not accredited by ATS, so they are not on the list.  Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary is the largest of these with an enrollment of about 125. 
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Jim Butler on March 16, 2021, 11:26:33 AM
Is SK Saskatchewan?  AB Alberta?  ON Ontario? 

Jeremy


Yes. Yes. And Yes.

Fall 2020 enrollment figures have been released at the ATS (American Theological Schools) Lutheran seminaries. Here they are by headcount:
*.Concordia Seminary (MO): 596
* Luther Seminary (MN): 502
* United Lutheran Seminary: 381
* Concordia Theological Seminary (IN): 295
* Wartburg Theological Seminary: 236
* Lutheran School of Theology Chicago: 138
* Martin Luther University College (ON): 113
* Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary: 69
* Trinity Lutheran Seminary: 54
* Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary: 46
* Lutheran Theological Seminary (SK): 23
*. Concordia Lutheran Theological Seminary (ONT): 17
*. Concordia Lutheran Seminary (AB): 5
The Institute of Lutheran Theology's fall 2020 headcount was 103, which would put it in 8th place on the list. There are a number of Lutheran Seminaries that are not accredited by ATS, so they are not on the list.  Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary is the largest of these with an enrollment of about 125.

I never realized that LSTC was so small. I always thought it was larger. The same goes for Trinity.

With three seminaries with less than 100 students (and one with only 138), how long before the ELCA begins closing schools as no longer viable?
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dan Fienen on March 16, 2021, 11:34:44 AM

I never realized that LSTC was so small. I always thought it was larger. The same goes for Trinity.

With three seminaries with less than 100 students (and one with only 138), how long before the ELCA begins closing schools as no longer viable?
I am not knowledgeable about ELCA seminaries, but are all of its seminaries independent self standing schools? I seem to remember that some of them function as departments, subdivisions, or special interest groups within larger schools. If so, they can likely continue to function within those larger schools even though quite small.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on March 16, 2021, 11:38:21 AM
Thanks Jim.  I didn't even know there was a Martin Luther University College.  Not that you would know, but is that a college or a seminary or a college with a divinity school?  I suppose if this list of seminary enrollment came from the ATS, then MLUC is a seminary. 

I, too, was surprised at the size of some of the ELCA schools.  The one I know best, which is hardly at all, is Trinity in Columbus OH, because I served in that city for five years and it was the closest Lutheran seminary to me.  I'd visit the bookstore a couple times a year, attended a concert there once.  Went to a Capital Univ. football game to see a church member play.  The thing that surprised me the most was that at some point between 2000-2005, the majority of faculty members were non-Lutheran.  I was so naive that I couldn't wrap my mind around that. 

Jeremy
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on March 16, 2021, 11:43:19 AM

I never realized that LSTC was so small. I always thought it was larger. The same goes for Trinity.

With three seminaries with less than 100 students (and one with only 138), how long before the ELCA begins closing schools as no longer viable?
I am not knowledgeable about ELCA seminaries, but are all of its seminaries independent self standing schools? I seem to remember that some of them function as departments, subdivisions, or special interest groups within larger schools. If so, they can likely continue to function within those larger schools even though quite small.

I think that is correct, Dan.  I believe Trinity was bought by Capital Univ so they are part of that school which has a fairly stable financial picture.  And I think there was a partnership between the seminary in South Carolina with Lenoir-Rhyne University in North Carolina.  And I think that Pacific Lutheran Seminary was merging/partnering with another Lutheran university in Berkeley.  But I might be mistaken. 

Jeremy
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: peterm on March 16, 2021, 12:13:24 PM
Is SK Saskatchewan?  AB Alberta?  ON Ontario? 

Jeremy


Yes. Yes. And Yes.

Fall 2020 enrollment figures have been released at the ATS (American Theological Schools) Lutheran seminaries. Here they are by headcount:
*.Concordia Seminary (MO): 596
* Luther Seminary (MN): 502
* United Lutheran Seminary: 381
* Concordia Theological Seminary (IN): 295
* Wartburg Theological Seminary: 236
* Lutheran School of Theology Chicago: 138
* Martin Luther University College (ON): 113
* Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary: 69
* Trinity Lutheran Seminary: 54
* Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary: 46
* Lutheran Theological Seminary (SK): 23
*. Concordia Lutheran Theological Seminary (ONT): 17
*. Concordia Lutheran Seminary (AB): 5
The Institute of Lutheran Theology's fall 2020 headcount was 103, which would put it in 8th place on the list. There are a number of Lutheran Seminaries that are not accredited by ATS, so they are not on the list.  Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary is the largest of these with an enrollment of about 125.

I never realized that LSTC was so small. I always thought it was larger. The same goes for Trinity.

With three seminaries with less than 100 students (and one with only 138), how long before the ELCA begins closing schools as no longer viable?

Many ELCA seminaries that are smaller have been "reabsorbed" by the Universities from which they Sprang..  Even Luther who though relatively large, has a very small on campus contingent and has entered  back into relationship with Augsburg University to provide some things that the seminary no longer does on its own, like food service, and sharing a campus Pastor etc.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Jim Butler on March 16, 2021, 12:49:02 PM
Thanks Jim.  I didn't even know there was a Martin Luther University College.  Not that you would know, but is that a college or a seminary or a college with a divinity school?  I suppose if this list of seminary enrollment came from the ATS, then MLUC is a seminary. 

Jeremy

It used to be Waterloo Lutheran Seminary.

Here is their website: https://luther.wlu.ca
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Likeness on March 17, 2021, 08:48:53 AM
In the game of life, we should never blame the umpires or referees when we have losses.
Instead, we should look in the mirror and see where we need to improve ourselves and
make the necessary adjustments.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: peter_speckhard on March 17, 2021, 09:03:54 AM
The policy against anonymous posting is also a policy against sniping pointless thread drift into sniping. So I've removed the posts that did not relate to the topic.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Steven W Bohler on March 17, 2021, 09:27:04 AM
The policy against anonymous posting is also a policy against sniping pointless thread drift into sniping. So I've removed the posts that did not relate to the topic.

Thank you.  And I apologize for contributing to that thread drift.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Keith Falk on March 17, 2021, 11:30:50 AM
Thanks Jim.  I didn't even know there was a Martin Luther University College.  Not that you would know, but is that a college or a seminary or a college with a divinity school?  I suppose if this list of seminary enrollment came from the ATS, then MLUC is a seminary. 

I, too, was surprised at the size of some of the ELCA schools.  The one I know best, which is hardly at all, is Trinity in Columbus OH, because I served in that city for five years and it was the closest Lutheran seminary to me.  I'd visit the bookstore a couple times a year, attended a concert there once.  Went to a Capital Univ. football game to see a church member play.  The thing that surprised me the most was that at some point between 2000-2005, the majority of faculty members were non-Lutheran.  I was so naive that I couldn't wrap my mind around that. 

Jeremy


I was at Trinity from 2002-2006. I am going off of memory, which probably isn't wise, but I think the majority were Lutheran.  Of those I remember:
NT - Lutheran - Taylor and Powell; Croy - I forget... maybe Methodist?
OT - Lutheran - Hutton and Nakamura; Shields - Presbyterian (I think)
Worship - Lutheran - W Huffman, then Keljo for a bit, then Schroeder some
Preaching - Lutheran - Langknecht
Theology - Lutheran - Luck, Root, T Huffman, C Peterson
Education - Lutheran - Hughes; can't remember the other main prof, she was Presbyterian, I think


I know there were other professors, some full-time, part-time, adjuncts, etc... but for a list by memory, I think most full-time faculty were Lutheran.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Benke on March 17, 2021, 12:13:09 PM
Wrapping my head around the difficult downward path for the Concordias, the remaining schools all have full religion departments with mandatory courses for all students, plus tracks for church workers either in preparation or completion. 

It seems as though the direction being taken by the Synod's Board of Directors is to control what they desire to control, which is the theology, and back as far away as possible from operations and finance, without giving up their rights to the property in case of dissolution.  I'm not sure I would want to serve on a Concordia Board under those strictures, or certainly serve as an officer/leader.  Which is neither here nor there, because I am supremely confident that I will not be asked to serve at any national level in our denomination.  Peace out.

However, what would be in the interest of the denomination might be to put some thought into the location of programs at the Concordias, and see whether it makes sense to pare them down.  The Deaconess program is a bit of a head-scratcher in that it's offered at both seminaries as well as at one college.  Why would three midwestern locations at two different kinds of institutions be optimum resource use?  As the graduates in the Lutheran teacher category drop, and as director of Christian education programs have morphed, the types of auxiliary office training and locations for that training should, maybe, come up for strategic conversation. 

Then as the nursing programs have jumped way up the ladder, a question is whether those programs and the necessary certifications can and should include strong religious offerings, or maybe that's already been done. 

On the personal side, my mom received her teacher's education at Valpo back in the day, and later on her RN at the Milwaukee (Lutheran) School of Nursing, and taught at several Lutheran schools in Wisconsin as well as doing much of her nursing at Lutheran Hospital in Milwaukee.  There was in fact then a nationwide vocational training and certification system for teachers and nurses that was specifically Lutheran. 

I'm sure this has all been part of the ongoing national conversation at some level already in the Missouri Synod, if for no other reason than the closure of the three Concordias to date.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Steven W Bohler on March 17, 2021, 01:12:30 PM
Dr. Benke,

My mother also received her RN training at Milwaukee School of Nursing.  Mid-to-late 1950ís.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: The Yak on March 17, 2021, 01:35:24 PM
Then as the nursing programs have jumped way up the ladder, a question is whether those programs and the necessary certifications can and should include strong religious offerings, or maybe that's already been done. 

Yes, it is. At CUAA all nurses have to take the following courses as part of their curriculum: REL 100 - The Bible; REL 110 - The Christian Faith; and REL 376 - Christian Ethics.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: D. Engebretson on March 17, 2021, 03:53:32 PM
The Deaconess program is a bit of a head-scratcher in that it's offered at both seminaries as well as at one college.  Why would three midwestern locations at two different kinds of institutions be optimum resource use? 

When my youngest daughter was wrestling with what track to take, we thought about these options.  She was inspired into the deaconess program because of the wonderful Christ Academy program at CTS-FW.  Naturally, they emphasized their graduate program, as I'm sure CS-SL would.  And that would make sense if she was already enrolled in an undergraduate program, or if she had graduated and wanted to add to her education and credentials.  But to go and pursue an undergraduate program first, then enroll in the MA degree later, seemed like a long road for her when she was already very interested in the program.  So we encouraged her to go this route, and then think about possible graduate work in another disciple later (e.g. counseling, social work, etc.)

As with men in the pastoral ministry who seek out programs later in life after pursuing other careers, we also have women in similar situations.  For men we even offer multiple tracks, some degree-based, some not, some more extensive without a degree (alt route), some less extensive without a degree (SMP).  True, there are not a lot of young ladies out there going into the undergrad deaconess program, but I like the idea that CUC still supports it, small or not.  For my daughter it was perfect, especially with the excellent music program to boot. But there are also a lot of women taking a second look at ministry after a first career.  For that the seminaries are also a God-send.
Title: Re: Seminary Education
Post by: Dave Benke on March 17, 2021, 06:35:22 PM
Dr. Benke,

My mother also received her RN training at Milwaukee School of Nursing.  Mid-to-late 1950ís.

There you go!  My mom would have been late 1930s; she then worked as a nurse at the enormous factory, A O Smith, which made tanks and stuff during the war, where she met my dad.  But that (MSN) institution was based on Lutheran identity and recruitment toward the vocation of nursing.  I think it closed way back in the 60s and/or merged with some other program.  Now lots of the Concordia's have nursing and health care professions as major program areas. 

Dave Benke