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ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 11:16:19 AM

Title: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 11:16:19 AM
Here is a very thoughtful and thought-provoking reflection on Memorial by Dr. Gene Edward Veith:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2020/05/memory/

A snippet, but do read the rest in which Dr. Veith reflects further on the "superpower" of human memory and imagination and quotes St. Augustine on these issues. Powerful stuff!


Today is Memorial Day, when we remember those who have given their lives for our liberties.  We are grateful for those who have, in effect, died for us.  Their sacrifice, in turn, reminds us of someone else who died for us.  He himself makes the connection:  “Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:13).

Some people observe Memorial Day by also remembering all of their loved ones who have died, visiting the cemetery to put flowers on their graves and bringing back memories of them.

Memory is one of the superpowers of the human mind.  Our ability to conjure up in our minds people, events, and experiences from the past, thus bringing them back into our present, is a remarkable power.

Memory is part of our imagination, the faculty we have of forming mental images.


Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Daniel Lee Gard on May 25, 2020, 11:19:31 AM
A reflection on who we honor on Memorial Day.

On Memorial Day, I honor the far too many men that I personally knew who gave their lives for our nation. I remember the families of those who, when they answered the doorbell, saw me with a casualty assistance team coming to tell them that their son or husband had been killed. I especially remember the families of those murdered by terrorists on 9/11 at the Pentagon and to whom I was privileged to serve as a chaplain.

We usually think of those who died in combat and who never made it home. My family has worn the uniform in every conflict since the Revolutionary War. Only one, however, died directly as result of war: my 3rd Great Grandfather, Private John Robinson (Civil War, E Com, 2nd Reg, Michigan Infantry) in 1864.

But some veterans returned home alive but bearing the wounds of war only to die of those wounds at a later time. Such was my 2nd Great Uncle, Private Walter Whyde (WWI, 23 Co 6 Bn, 158 Dep Brig) who was discharged from General Hospital 19 as a wounded warrior. A promising and gifted young man before the war, his war wounds were both physical and psychological. Following the war, he was in and out of the courts – both criminal and domestic. I have no doubt that he suffered from PTSD, a disorder neither recognized nor treated at the time. In the end, he died in Ohio in a knife fight in 1933.

Some of our war dead died on a field of battle. Others died later, back at home but with the wounds of war still tormenting them physically, emotionally and spiritually. Too many die later as a result of their wounds. These also paid the price of their lives in defense of our country. I remember them also,
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: peter_speckhard on May 25, 2020, 11:25:53 AM
A reflection on who we honor on Memorial Day.

On Memorial Day, I honor the far too many men that I personally knew who gave their lives for our nation. I remember the families of those who, when they answered the doorbell, saw me with a casualty assistance team coming to tell them that their son or husband had been killed. I especially remember the families of those murdered by terrorists on 9/11 at the Pentagon and to whom I was privileged to serve as a chaplain.

We usually think of those who died in combat and who never made it home. My family has worn the uniform in every conflict since the Revolutionary War. Only one, however, died directly as result of war: my 3rd Great Grandfather, Private John Robinson (Civil War, E Com, 2nd Reg, Michigan Infantry) in 1864.

But some veterans returned home alive but bearing the wounds of war only to die of those wounds at a later time. Such was my 2nd Great Uncle, Private Walter Whyde (WWI, 23 Co 6 Bn, 158 Dep Brig) who was discharged from General Hospital 19 as a wounded warrior. A promising and gifted young man before the war, his war wounds were both physical and psychological. Following the war, he was in and out of the courts – both criminal and domestic. I have no doubt that he suffered from PTSD, a disorder neither recognized nor treated at the time. In the end, he died in Ohio in a knife fight in 1933.

Some of our war dead died on a field of battle. Others died later, back at home but with the wounds of war still tormenting them physically, emotionally and spiritually. Too many die later as a result of their wounds. These also paid the price of their lives in defense of our country. I remember them also,
Indeed. I did a funeral in 2002 for a man who had been a 19 year old forward scout in the Battle of the Bulge. His life after the war was so marked by ptsd that his was able to get his cause of death listed as combat related.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: D. Engebretson on May 25, 2020, 11:58:07 AM
A reflection on who we honor on Memorial Day.

On Memorial Day, I honor the far too many men that I personally knew who gave their lives for our nation. I remember the families of those who, when they answered the doorbell, saw me with a casualty assistance team coming to tell them that their son or husband had been killed. I especially remember the families of those murdered by terrorists on 9/11 at the Pentagon and to whom I was privileged to serve as a chaplain.

We usually think of those who died in combat and who never made it home. My family has worn the uniform in every conflict since the Revolutionary War. Only one, however, died directly as result of war: my 3rd Great Grandfather, Private John Robinson (Civil War, E Com, 2nd Reg, Michigan Infantry) in 1864.

But some veterans returned home alive but bearing the wounds of war only to die of those wounds at a later time. Such was my 2nd Great Uncle, Private Walter Whyde (WWI, 23 Co 6 Bn, 158 Dep Brig) who was discharged from General Hospital 19 as a wounded warrior. A promising and gifted young man before the war, his war wounds were both physical and psychological. Following the war, he was in and out of the courts – both criminal and domestic. I have no doubt that he suffered from PTSD, a disorder neither recognized nor treated at the time. In the end, he died in Ohio in a knife fight in 1933.

Some of our war dead died on a field of battle. Others died later, back at home but with the wounds of war still tormenting them physically, emotionally and spiritually. Too many die later as a result of their wounds. These also paid the price of their lives in defense of our country. I remember them also,

Indeed. I'm glad you mentioned those who "died later, back at home but with the wounds of war still tormenting them physically, emotionally and spiritually." Such was my father, SSgt. George S. Engebretson (Ret.), who also undoubtedly suffered from PTSD before it became known as such. Alcoholism took much from him physically, and the torments of the soul never left him. He lived through the horror of WWII and Korea, and when he finally retired he had suffered a heart attack and had an injury to his back from a combat paratroop jump, eventually being rated with a 100% disability.  He would later die at a veteran's hospital in 1988, still bearing the deep scars of the 20+ years he gave to this country. 

Thank you for mentioning the suffering of such men.  They did not die on the battlefield, but the battlefield followed them into death.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 12:25:38 PM
“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

— Ronald Reagan
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: John_Hannah on May 25, 2020, 03:06:30 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.

Of course. Last night at the Memorial Day Concert, the MC's paid tribute to the health care providers, grocery workers, postal workers, et. al. It is only right.

Peace, JOHN (wore the uniform but didn't have a weapon  :) )
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dan Fienen on May 25, 2020, 03:21:18 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.

You regularly post something like this. Do you really think that the rest of us don't get this? That we are so ignorant of the varieties of service given to our nation that we fail to honor those who serve without bearing arms? That is an insulting accusation of ignorance and insensitivity. We do not need, someday, to learn this, we long ago learned this. As Chaplain Hannah pointed out, the Memorial Day observance concert recognized and honored those who are serving in many ways, including grocery stores and truck drivers during this pandemic crisis. In my own Memorial Day observances for this past Sunday, I included all of these serving and risking during this crisis, as well as the families who support for the workers often includes hardship and loss. Someday we will learn?!? We learned.


Or is it that so long as Memorial Day is observed and those who bore arms and gave the last full measure of devotion are remembered and honored that we have not sufficiently learned your lesson?
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on May 25, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Something from a. Few years ago.

https://deadline.com/2016/12/hacksaw-ridge-veteran-son-letter-mel-gibson-1201871327/
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Daniel Lee Gard on May 25, 2020, 03:23:25 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.

Like Pastor Hannah, I wore a uniform but did not carry a weapon.

The purpose of Memorial Day is specific to remembering and honoring those that gave their lives in defense of our freedom. It does not diminish the sacrifices that others ("health care providers, grocery workers, postal workers, et. al" per Pastor Hannah) have made. They deserve to be honored as well. But Memorial Day is about those who died in war.

Of course, we have this discussion every year.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Daniel Lee Gard on May 25, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
 In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
        In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
        In Flanders fields.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: peter_speckhard on May 25, 2020, 03:26:44 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.
I think firefighters and police get a fair amount of praise for their service. As does any particular individual who dies saving others. The first funeral I ever did was for a woman my age who drowned In successfully saving her son from drowning. Tremendous honor in that ultimate sacrifice.

The difference is in the purpose of the vocation and the oath of office. Nobody who signs up to be, say, a doctor, pledges to make that ultimate sacrifice on behalf of strangers.

It is a straw man to point out that others serve their country sacrificially. Precisely zero people have ever said otherwise.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 03:38:02 PM
Something from a. Few years ago.

https://deadline.com/2016/12/hacksaw-ridge-veteran-son-letter-mel-gibson-1201871327/

I remember that article when you first told us about it Don. I enjoyed the chance to read it again. Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dave Benke on May 25, 2020, 03:39:23 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.

Like Pastor Hannah, I wore a uniform but did not carry a weapon.

The purpose of Memorial Day is specific to remembering and honoring those that gave their lives in defense of our freedom. It does not diminish the sacrifices that others ("health care providers, grocery workers, postal workers, et. al" per Pastor Hannah) have made. They deserve to be honored as well. But Memorial Day is about those who died in war.

Of course, we have this discussion every year.

I agree with you completely on this, Dan. 

One of our District Presidents served as a chaplain in the 101st Airborne in a far off land.  Because he jumped with the troops, he was allowed to carry a weapon.  Upon return and I guess pretty much until he died, he invariably carried a weapon on his person.  That included the COP meetings.  I would ask, "You packing today?"  He wouldn't answer a word.  Just gave me the look of a military chaplain who had jumped with the 101st Airborne.     Rest in peace.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: John_Hannah on May 25, 2020, 03:45:20 PM
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
        In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
        In Flanders fields.

In 1987 I lead the prayers for the Annual American Memorial Day Service in Flanders Field, Belgium. Unforgettable. As was seeing Pope John Paul II at Ieper (Ypres), Belgium (famous WW I battlefield) the year before.

Peace, JOHN
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 04:00:44 PM
Pastor Fienen writes, overstating things again:
You regularly post something like this. Do you really think that the rest of us don't get this? That we are so ignorant of the varieties of service given to our nation that we fail to honor those who serve without bearing arms?
I comment:
Sometimes. And society in general is, but (see below)

Pastor Fienen:
That is an insulting accusation of ignorance and insensitivity. We do not need, someday, to learn this, we long ago learned this. As Chaplain Hannah pointed out, the Memorial Day observance concert recognized and honored those who are serving in many ways, including grocery stores and truck drivers during this pandemic crisis.
Me:
Yes, this year those other people are on our minds because now, for the first time in our lives, I think, people in this country have to risk their lives for the sake of the greater good. The pandemic is teaching us that.

Pastor Fienen:
In my own Memorial Day observances for this past Sunday, I included all of these serving and risking during this crisis, as well as the families who support for the workers often includes hardship and loss. Someday we will learn?!? We learned.
Me:
Good. You learned

Pastor Fienen:
Or is it that so long as Memorial Day is observed and those who bore arms and gave the last full measure of devotion are remembered and honored that we have not sufficiently learned your lesson?
Me:
No. Not at all. Memorial day and the November Veterans Day are great opportunities for an understanding of this. I alway took part in those observances.  , I only note from time to time that there are other ways to serve our country, or other ways to work for justice, equality, and truth where people may be called to make that “ultimate sacrifice.” (Sometimes, that sacrifice is even made by journalists.)
And should one think my comments are “utterly tasteless, boorish and completely and entirely tone deaf,” I will just say: Such a person eagerly rushes to judgment, doesn’t read carefully, and - as we know from long experience with such people  - loves being on the “weapon” side of “protecting” our freedoms. Some of us want to make sure that there are Christians on the non-weapon side.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dan Fienen on May 25, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

A heartfelt YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY) . The music is John Williams' "Hymn to the Fallen" from Saving Private Ryan. The pictures are U. S. military cemeteries around the world with the number intered.


Another YouTube video based on the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee My Country" and adapted for the United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08)
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 04:13:10 PM
Peter writes:
The difference is in the purpose of the vocation and the oath of office. Nobody who signs up to be, say, a doctor, pledges to make that ultimate sacrifice on behalf of strangers.
I muse:
Then it occurs to me that one might think their actions are even more noble. The soldier, the cop knows from the start what they might be called upon to do.
My concern takes nothing away from what men and women in uniform are called to do, and most of my male friends are veterans. They know how I feel, but it’s only in this modest forum where my comments that there are other ways to serve seem to cause trouser sizzles in certain quarters.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dave Benke on May 25, 2020, 04:18:11 PM
A video posted by Jerry Kieschnick today - Angel Flight:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIsnD87uOeo&fbclid=IwAR2lO0ErUZZcvq4obxx4sK9m7kpgKdstkvmBXx9pwEmreb05Xll_CSF715k

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dan Fienen on May 25, 2020, 04:21:42 PM

Charles, there may well be those who do not properly honor those who serve without bearing arms. But do you honestly think those of us who are part of this forum community are counted among them? That we have yet to learn that? (I do not usually include grocery workers among those who risk their lives in service of this nation and her people as I did this year. Usually grocery work does not entail that kind of danger, now it does. I regularly include Police (normally armed), Fire (normally unarmed), and First Responders (mixed) in my Memorial Day prayers with military and their families.


My problem is not your call to remember those who are not under arms or in uniform as also serving and occasionally dying for our country, it was your "someday . . . we will learn" that seems to imply dissatisfaction with how those who serve are being honored.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 04:22:17 PM

A heartfelt YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY) . The music is John Williams' "Hymn to the Fallen" from Saving Private Ryan. The pictures are U. S. military cemeteries around the world with the number intered.

Wow, that is powerfully moving. Thanks for posting it Dan. It reminded me immediately of what General Colin Powell said a number of years ago:

"We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works."
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dan Fienen on May 25, 2020, 04:24:55 PM



<<snip>>


They know how I feel, but it’s only in this modest forum where my comments that there are other ways to serve seem to cause trouser sizzles in certain quarters.

It is not so much your reminder that there are other ways to serve than under arms that sizzle my trousers, its your implication that we in this modest forum need to "someday" learn that. But then we have a pretty good idea of your general opinion of the rest of us anyway.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 04:28:52 PM
Pastor Fienen:
My problem is not your call to remember those who are not under arms or in uniform as also serving and occasionally dying for our country, it was your "someday . . . we will learn" that seems to imply dissatisfaction with how those who serve are being honored.

Me:
It doesn’t. And I have said so before. Everything OK now?

Pastor Fienen:
It is not so much your reminder that there are other ways to serve than under arms that sizzle my trousers, its your implication that we in this modest forum need to "someday" learn that. But then we have a pretty good idea of your general opinion of the rest of us anyway.
Me:
See above. And you do not know my “general opinion“ of “the rest of us“. You are not all alike.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dan Fienen on May 25, 2020, 04:31:12 PM
Pastor Fienen:
My problem is not your call to remember those who are not under arms or in uniform as also serving and occasionally dying for our country, it was your "someday . . . we will learn" that seems to imply dissatisfaction with how those who serve are being honored.

Me:
It doesn’t. And I have said so before. Everything OK now?

Sure, OK, you didn't really mean what it sounded like you said. Will all respect, as a former professional journalist and current free lancer you must understand that precision in using language is important. Less precision more risks misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 04:35:04 PM
There is also Such a thing as Precision in reading, and a thoughtful analysis Not colored by old prejudice of what is said.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dave Benke on May 25, 2020, 04:36:36 PM

A heartfelt YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY) . The music is John Williams' "Hymn to the Fallen" from Saving Private Ryan. The pictures are U. S. military cemeteries around the world with the number intered.


Another YouTube video based on the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee My Country" and adapted for the United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08)

Thanks for this, Dan.  Because of its sweeping views of the various cemeteries it led me to think a thought I had not had before, which is - where are all the German soldiers buried?  First off, I wonder why I had never had that thought.  I think plainly because I'm an American. 

But, as it turns out, many are buried in Belgium, and on the soil where the various battles were fought.  And the national day of mourning is actually set up liturgically - called Volkstrauertag and held two Sundays prior to Advent I, purposefully inside the Christian liturgical calendar. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Steven Tibbetts on May 25, 2020, 04:45:52 PM
No. Not at all. Memorial day and the November Veterans Day are great opportunities for an understanding of this. I alway took part in those observances.  , I only note from time to time that there are other ways to serve our country, or other ways to work for justice, equality, and truth where people may be called to make that “ultimate sacrifice.” (Sometimes, that sacrifice is even made by journalists.)


Perhaps if on this forum your "from time to time" weren't invariably an occasion already set aside for a particular set of those who served...

Kyrie eleison, Steven+
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 05:27:54 PM
Gee, thanks, Steven. That’s brilliant!
Remind me to bring the topic up in connection with Valentine’s Day, or maybe New Years Day.
No, wait. Arbor Day! That’s the time when we are thinking about honoring certain kinds of people.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: peter_speckhard on May 25, 2020, 05:29:20 PM
Peter writes:
The difference is in the purpose of the vocation and the oath of office. Nobody who signs up to be, say, a doctor, pledges to make that ultimate sacrifice on behalf of strangers.
I muse:
Then it occurs to me that one might think their actions are even more noble. The soldier, the cop knows from the start what they might be called upon to do.
My concern takes nothing away from what men and women in uniform are called to do, and most of my male friends are veterans. They know how I feel, but it’s only in this modest forum where my comments that there are other ways to serve seem to cause trouser sizzles in certain quarters.
Charles wrote [emphasis added]: "And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon."

I responded by agreeing with the point and giving a good example, but objecting to the idea that there was anybody anywhere who disagreed. The obvious implication of Charles's post was that he was aware of something that others weren't but should be. As such, it was a needlessly accusatory and obnoxious post.

In response to my response, Charles writes: "...but it’s only in this modest forum where my comments that there are other ways to serve seem to cause trouser sizzles in certain quarters."

Of course, NOBODY, in ANY forum, no matter how modest, has ever objected his or anyone's else's mere assertion that "there are other ways to serve." In other words, he actually tilts at his own straw men as though they are real, which would be fine as a private hobby if he didn't identify "some others in this forum" as these straw men.

It is good for those who are constantly engaged with Charles to bear in mind. Just leave it. He really can't help himself and really doesn't understand the objection. Let him alone.

Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 05:41:41 PM
Pastor Peter:
Of course, NOBODY, in ANY forum, no matter how modest, has ever objected his or anyone's else's mere assertion that "there are other ways to serve." In other words, he actually tilts at his own straw men as though they are real, which would be fine as a private hobby if he didn't identify "some others in this forum" as these straw men.
Me:
I stand in awe at your grasp of what I have seen and heard and experienced over the years. How do you do that?

Peter:
It is good for those who are constantly engaged with Charles to bear in mind. Just leave it. He really can't help himself and really doesn't understand the objection. Let him alone.
Me:
I have at times said here, if you don’t like what I say, just ignore it. But for some people, that seems hard to do.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 05:46:40 PM
Many cook outs on Memorial Day, perhaps far fewer this year, but I thought this was amusing, which reminds me...I have to get dinner going. My wife and I have for years agreed to the arrangement whereby she makes breakfast, I make supper.

https://babylonbee.com/news/historian-women-invented-grilling-to-trick-men-into-cooking?utm_content=buffer12545&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: peter_speckhard on May 25, 2020, 05:49:19 PM
Pastor Peter:
Of course, NOBODY, in ANY forum, no matter how modest, has ever objected his or anyone's else's mere assertion that "there are other ways to serve." In other words, he actually tilts at his own straw men as though they are real, which would be fine as a private hobby if he didn't identify "some others in this forum" as these straw men.
Me:
I stand in awe at your grasp of what I have seen and heard and experienced over the years. How do you do that?

Peter:
It is good for those who are constantly engaged with Charles to bear in mind. Just leave it. He really can't help himself and really doesn't understand the objection. Let him alone.
Me:
I have at times said here, if you don’t like what I say, just ignore it. But for some people, that seems hard to do.
I’ve been in this forum a long time, and never have “some in this modest forum” objected to the idea that there are other ways to serve. Many, many, across the years and from a variety of synods and denominations have objected to your obnoxiousness. Which I’m just now catching on is something you actually can’t help because you don’t see it. Hence my suggestion.

If you have experience outside this forum with people objecting to your assertion that there are other ways to serve, take it over there, or at least do t ascribe that view to anyone in this forum.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: James J Eivan on May 25, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
And someday, probably not on memorial day weekend, we will learn that one can serve one’s country and perhaps even have to make that “ultimate sacrifice” without putting on a uniform and picking up a weapon.

Of course. Last night at the Memorial Day Concert, the MC's paid tribute to the health care providers, grocery workers, postal workers, et. al. It is only right.

Peace, JOHN (wore the uniform but didn't have a weapon  :) )
This whole pandemic reveals how interdependent are ... I VERY rarely enter a bar ... but the loss of the tax revenue from these establishments may well affect my life. I rarely darken the doors of a restaurant or other eating establishment, but the recent disruption of that industry is far reaching as wel!.

As in a church, any time one attempts to specifically acknowledge the efforts required for an event, some are overlooked.  This afternoon I visited with my neighbor ... the perils of long haul truckers was discussed ... highway rest areas were closed ... for understandable reasons ... but truckers now had no place to relieve themselves .. eating establishments understandably closed ... where do the truckers eat?

Local delivery personal continued working ... as did many others ...they all deserve recognition ... and surely others are still being overlooked.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: P.T. McCain on May 25, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
This whole pandemic reveals how interdependent we are

Indeed, this has been an aspect of this that has really hit me.

Gas prices are so low! But...I have not filled up my truck in eight weeks. What impact does that have on the gas station and everything associated with it? And on and on and on the list goes. The dominoes are falling down and everyone is getting hit (to mix a metaphor).

Hospitals, we were told, were going to be overwhelmed so we all had to stay away ... now we are reading about massive layoffs at our hospitals!

Historians are going to be studying and writing about this event for a very long time.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Charles Austin on May 25, 2020, 06:18:04 PM
Peter writes:
OK, Peter. I won’t  ascribe that to anyone in this forum.
So maybe my comments might simply remind all of us, in whatever forums we set our feet, to say at certain times, “Hooray for those in military service, who risk their lives and die for us!”
And then to say, “Hooray for teachers, or social workers, or nurses, or Peace Corps volunteers, or pro bono lawyers, or community organizers, or artists who - at times - also risk much, and may suffer for their service.”
We’re gonna need a few more songs, but we can write them.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: D. Engebretson on May 25, 2020, 06:19:33 PM

A heartfelt YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY) . The music is John Williams' "Hymn to the Fallen" from Saving Private Ryan. The pictures are U. S. military cemeteries around the world with the number intered.


Another YouTube video based on the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee My Country" and adapted for the United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08)

Yes, thank you, Dan, for posting this.  What a powerful and sobering reminder of the high cost of war and of the freedom we fight to protect.  I honestly had no idea that we had so many cemeteries throughout Europe.  Over 405,000 American servicemen and women died in WWII.  We often forget the many who died in the effort to stop the combined forces of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.  Tragically 3 million German military died in that war, and well over 2 million military personnel also died from Japan.  The total cost in human life from this most deadly of wars in modern history tops out at 75 to 80 million people, which accounted for 3% of the world's population in 1940, or to put that in different perspective, around 25% of the current population of the US.  It is hard to really conceive of such massive suffering and death out of one war.  May God preserve us from this in future years.
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Eileen Smith on May 25, 2020, 08:22:34 PM

A heartfelt YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY) . The music is John Williams' "Hymn to the Fallen" from Saving Private Ryan. The pictures are U. S. military cemeteries around the world with the number intered.


Another YouTube video based on the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee My Country" and adapted for the United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08)

May I add to this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jccNoxn1HoU&fbclid=IwAR1Tew41Y88e8xKGT4TwYpcFDecIIXhWOv4Uwm9A-ZIUjhpE-JlGSqSDnxU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jccNoxn1HoU&fbclid=IwAR1Tew41Y88e8xKGT4TwYpcFDecIIXhWOv4Uwm9A-ZIUjhpE-JlGSqSDnxU)
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Eileen Smith on May 25, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
I, too, watched the concert from Washington as Joe and I did every year.  It was difficult without Joe next to me.  Much like the Hannah family we would stand to sing the National Anthem and stood for Taps.  We enjoyed the Armed Services medley and sang along - standing, of course, for the Marines. 

Of the members of my family who served in the military "only" one was killed in Vietnam - one too many.  I thought it appropriate, given the current circumstances, to honor the front line people this year and it was done tastefully and without great fanfare.  But I hope we return to the nature of the day:  honoring those who died in service to our country. 

Perhaps we do need more songs to be composed to recognize the many ways people have served.  My husband rarely talked of his service and my dad never talked of his service in the Battles of Tarawa and Saipan.  Men and women who join the military do deserve a special observance be it on Veterans Day or a day such as this, Memorial Day. 

No one is excluded yet not everyone is included.  And, quite honestly, that is okay.  We are all called to serve God's children in some way yet not all in the same way.  When I die bishops most likely will not come to the funeral as they would for a deceased pastor.  It doesn't make me less than, simply different than.  Just as military honors are given to those service men and women    does not make them better than, simply different than.   

 
Title: Re: Memorial Day 2020 Reflection
Post by: Dave Benke on May 26, 2020, 11:26:10 AM

A heartfelt YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY) . The music is John Williams' "Hymn to the Fallen" from Saving Private Ryan. The pictures are U. S. military cemeteries around the world with the number intered.


Another YouTube video based on the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee My Country" and adapted for the United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrljyWm8D08)

May I add to this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jccNoxn1HoU&fbclid=IwAR1Tew41Y88e8xKGT4TwYpcFDecIIXhWOv4Uwm9A-ZIUjhpE-JlGSqSDnxU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jccNoxn1HoU&fbclid=IwAR1Tew41Y88e8xKGT4TwYpcFDecIIXhWOv4Uwm9A-ZIUjhpE-JlGSqSDnxU)

Thanks for this, Eileen, and for your reflection.  I know the West Point Band and Glee Club from being with them at the USMA, and this rendition is tops.  My siblings and I played and sang "In the Mansions of the Lord" at the funeral service for my brother's father-in-law, who served in the 75th Army Rangers during WWII.  On the day Paris was re-taken, his task as a Ranger was to ascend the Eiffel Tower and remove from it the last German snipers. He then returned home and became a teacher of music and musical instruments in the public school system.  Rest in Peace.

Dave Benke