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ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: JMOtterman on July 08, 2007, 12:44:14 PM

Title: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 08, 2007, 12:44:14 PM
Is Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson a lock for 6 more years?  Who will be nominated for Secretary of the ELCA?  Who will run against Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson?

I would nominate Dr. Walter Taylor for the post of Presiding Bishop of the ELCA but who would you nominate for our Presiding Bishop?

PJ
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Vern on July 08, 2007, 12:52:27 PM
Janaine England.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Charles_Austin on July 08, 2007, 01:04:15 PM
"We" do not nominate. The voting members of the Assembly nominate. I can only recall one time when a "candidate" presented himself to be president (presiding bishop) of the former LCA and that candidate was solidly defeated.  No one will "run against" Presiding Bishop Hanson, who has said he would accept another six-year term if elected. There will certainly be other names presented at the nominating ballot. There is no speculation so idle as that which muses on who might be or should be or could be a "new" presiding bishop.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: MMH on July 08, 2007, 01:09:30 PM
We need someone who is not too liberal nor too conservative nor even too moderate.

We need someone who is highly intelligent and well-read, and not afraid to let you know that.

We need someone who has had practical experieince with the media from the inside out and is more than willing to share insights garnered from that experience

We need someone who is gourmet and music lover and not to shy to share.

We need someone, at a time when the ELCA is being pulled in many differnt directions, who is not afraid to tell you when you are wrong and why he is right.

Brothers and Sisters, the man and the hour are met-

I give you-


CHARLES AUSTIN- Next presiding Bishop of the ELCA!

Matt Hummel+

Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 08, 2007, 02:56:38 PM
"We" do not nominate. The voting members of the Assembly nominate. I can only recall one time when a "candidate" presented himself to be president (presiding bishop) of the former LCA and that candidate was solidly defeated. No one will "run against" Presiding Bishop Hanson, who has said he would accept another six-year term if elected. There will certainly be other names presented at the nominating ballot. There is no speculation so idle as that which muses on who might be or should be or could be a "new" presiding bishop.

CA said" "We" do not nominate."

PJ replies  "I am not a we, and yes Charles I am a voting member of the ELCA Churchwide Assembly for 2007.  I am looking for suggestions.  I may nominate someone else if someone convinces me why they should be the Presiding Bishop. 

CA said "No one will "run against" Presiding Bishop Hanson.

PJ replies  "it is Symantics to think I meant that someone would "run against" Presiding Bishop Hanson.  But what metaphor would you use instead of "run against"?

CA said "There is no speculation so idle as that which muses on who might be or should be or could be a "new" presiding bishop."

PJ replies "Then why did thee post, or are you just bored?" 

The nomination of another candidate need be a person which would have an opportunity to succeed in creating a healthy environment at the churchwide assembly, the easy way out and not so healthy situation is to forego finding a candidate to face Presiding Bishop Hanson on the issues that continue to divide the church, and just vote Presiding Bishop Hanson in for another 6 years.

CA you didn't say who you would vote for Secretary or Treasurer.  I know, I know "there is no speculation so idle as that which muses on who might be, should be, or could be a new secretary or treasurer."  So I should just keep my mouth shut, my head in the sand, and my posterior exposed for yet another hind end whipin?

pj
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Eric_Swensson on July 08, 2007, 03:23:17 PM
Charles ir right. Eccesial ballot means that something sacred happens at the assembly. It is a mysterian. It is too holy and sacred that mere mortals should participate in a discussion of it. Even though who leads the ELCA in such perilous times (think, we could get a Schoriite) is probably of historic importance, do not discuss it. It is futile.

I nominate both Donfried and Egland (so to speak, just for the sake of healthy discussion) and would be happy with either.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on July 08, 2007, 04:00:50 PM
To stand any outside chance a number of things would have to happen...
perhaps the PB Hansen could show some weakness in the opening hours of the convention where people might perceive that he is not the best person for the moment....  he falters in some way...
some nominee garners enough votes to keep the process going beyond the second or so ballot and then a candiat speaks or is questioned by the assembly AND has a strong and persuasive verbal presentation ...
people speak of the Spirit guiding the process of the ecclesastical ballot and the do so in sarcastic and in pious tones...
I can accept the view that in up for grabs elections where there is no incumbent that the Spirit has manuvering room... but when an incumbent who has not been incompetent stands for election it is as if the assembly comes not to elect a bishop but to confirm a bishop... do you see my distinction....  who unelects a bishop and why?  the ecclesiastical ballot (and ours is not a pure one) gives the appearance of plenty of openness on that first ballot but there is this big assumption that all those who vote know all the candidates and know them well enough to cast Spirit-inspired ballots.  I think we should go back to nominating and politiking.  Harvey Mozolak
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Jeffrey Spencer on July 08, 2007, 05:06:25 PM
I'm a voting member to the CWA too.  So I guess there's more than one "we" among us...

I too would like to hear who might have a chance at being elected PB or Secretary.  Unfortunately, I think The Lutheran's subtle hit piece on Donfried (July 2007) will make it hard for him to get any traction as a candidate for PB.  I'll be watching for his name, though.  I'd love to vote for a buddy of B16.

Who else might have a chance at these important offices?  It's sometimes hard out here in the "none zone" of the Pacific Northwest to become aware of potential candidates (or, if that's too political a term, potential presiding-bishop or secretary-elects). 

Unless the ecclessial ballot process makes it to the phase where people get to address the assembly, it is almost entirely an exercise in name recognition.  Even Tim Lull of blessed memory (who was generally pleased with the direction of the ELCA) thought our balloting process had to be reformed for a church of this size. 

Anyway, anyone care to guess whose names might show up with more than a handful of votes?  Too bad Richard Johnson just landed a cushy new job.

I have no idea who might emerge as a potential new secretary of the ELCA, and that's an important position.  I think that's where you'll see the fur fly in Chicago in terms of elections.

So, I second the motion to let the rank speculation begin!

Jeffrey Spencer
St. Paul Lutheran Church
Winlock, WA

Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Richard Johnson on July 08, 2007, 05:49:07 PM
Unfortunately, I think The Lutheran's subtle hit piece on Donfried (July 2007) will make it hard for him to get any traction as a candidate for PB. 

Now that's an interesting suggestion . . . Think there was some conspiracy afoot? :o
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Eric_Swensson on July 08, 2007, 05:54:38 PM
Unfortunately, I think The Lutheran's subtle hit piece on Donfried (July 2007) will make it hard for him to get any traction as a candidate for PB. 

Now that's an interesting suggestion . . . Think there was some conspiracy afoot? :o

Is :o the sarcasm smiley?
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Keith Falk on July 08, 2007, 07:13:20 PM
Is Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson a lock for 6 more years?  Who will be nominated for Secretary of the ELCA?  Who will run against Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson?

I would nominate Dr. Walter Taylor for the post of Presiding Bishop of the ELCA but who would you nominate for our Presiding Bishop?

PJ

I'm curious... why Dr. Taylor?
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: MEKoch on July 08, 2007, 07:22:39 PM
Who are the candidates for Secretary of the ELCA?  My wife is a "person of color" delegate.

Michael Koch

 ??? ???
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Jeffrey Spencer on July 08, 2007, 11:58:20 PM
Unfortunately, I think The Lutheran's subtle hit piece on Donfried (July 2007) will make it hard for him to get any traction as a candidate for PB. 

Now that's an interesting suggestion . . . Think there was some conspiracy afoot? :o

Is :o the sarcasm smiley?

For the record:

Joking or not, I don't think there was a consipiracy.  Instead of calling it a "hit piece," I should have just described it as an unfair and ill-timed (for Donfried) article that might affect his credibility among many at the CWA.  After all, the voting members at the CWA are probably among those dwindling numbers that still read The Lutheran.  They might well see his name and think, "Hey -- I read about him in last month's Lutheran magazine.  He's that mean guy who said the ELCA is full of aliens."

I also think that even though said article and comments by the editor were unfortunate, that overall, The Lutheran is generally a good magazine which has improved greatly under the new editor.

Jeffrey Spencer
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Richard Johnson on July 09, 2007, 01:17:52 AM
I also think that even though said article and comments by the editor were unfortunate, that overall, The Lutheran is generally a good magazine which has improved greatly under the new editor.



Wouldn't disagree. OTOH, there was nowhere to go but up!
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 11:06:30 AM
Keith,

Why Dr. Taylor?  His candidacy would create an opportunity for discussion with Presiding Bishop Hanson and the voting members of CWA.  He is pastoral in his identity even as the toughest scholastic professor at Trinity Lutheran Seminary, he listens to people and he cares even in his disagreements.  I haven't asked him yet if I might be able to put his name into the ring but I will today.  Even as he might not get the nod his presence might carry the CWA to create healthy dialogue and find ways to future agreements.  He is passionate about the bible and the hermeneutic issues that tend to bog down the ELCA.  He would be a viable candidate, he was a successful pastor, he is a successful professor of New Testament, a man who champions tradition, Lutheran theology, identity, and he brings excellence as a way of life.  Of course, if he were editing my slop here at would fail, but my belief is that he might bring back some of those 250,000 folks that have left the church over issues not essential to the meaning of being a Lutheran Christian. 

PJ   
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: djbaer on July 09, 2007, 11:16:29 AM
OK.  I'll drop a name for Secretary and add to the idle speculation.

Andrea DeGroot-Nesdahl.

Andrea is currently bishop of the South Dakota Synod but was unable to run for re-election because of the synod's term limits, so she'll be unemployed come September.

Andrea is a gifted public speaker.  She's great in front of a crowd.  She's been an elected leader in the conference of bishops so must be popular among them.  She's a friend of Bishop Hanson.  She's also a SHE which would be popular among those looking for a female face for the church.

Given that the secretary's position is mostly a widget counter (can you call pastors and church members widgets?) and constitution interpreter, this may not be the best position for her.  But she would make a good interpreter of the ELCA as one of its public faces.




Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 11:28:20 AM
To the Right Rev. Dr. David,

I agree with you and I would more than likely nominate Bishop Andrea Degroot-Nesdahl for Secretary of this church but why not Donfried or Englund oops I know misspelled that name.  Well I gotta go, call me David, are we meeting tomorrow?

Pastor Jeff
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: djbaer on July 09, 2007, 11:42:18 AM
I wasn't talking about who would be the best candidate.  I was suggesting who might likely be elected. 

Andrea has some excellent gifts for public relations, but I'm not sure that's what we want in a secretary.

From my perspective, the best candidate would be, like Lowell Almen, someone who loves the church and treasures its history and theology and even loves the constitution and bylaws.  A secretary needs to care a lot about the details.  There are different gifts and the secretary needs a gifts for administration and details and structure.

The secretary, as the person who handles the rosters, will face a lot of questions about the GLBT stuff, so assumptions are that Good Soil et al will be working to find a sympathetic candidate.

Someone who would honor church policy -- rather than work from inside to change or circumvent it -- is essential as secretary.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Vern on July 09, 2007, 01:57:46 PM
Janaine would turn the ELCA upside down and bring it back to the Gospel!!! :>)

Vern
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: pilgrimpriest on July 09, 2007, 02:05:16 PM
Janaine would turn the ELCA upside down and bring it back to the Gospel!!! :>)

Vern

Pr. Jaynan Clark-Egland for those of you who continue to be spelling impaired.

Priest RKM
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Eric_Swensson on July 09, 2007, 02:09:55 PM
Perhaps we could get the spelling of her name right (I have trouble myself) it is the Rev. Jaynan Clark Egland.

Listen, here is a link to a conference held by the Canadian group, Soild Ground, and you can listen to two of her talks and several by Dr. Jim Nestingen (I mispell his, too). http://www.solid-ground.ca/a-conferencereport2.htm
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Keith Falk on July 09, 2007, 02:55:33 PM
Keith,

Why Dr. Taylor?  His candidacy would create an opportunity for discussion with Presiding Bishop Hanson and the voting members of CWA.  He is pastoral in his identity even as the toughest scholastic professor at Trinity Lutheran Seminary, he listens to people and he cares even in his disagreements.  I haven't asked him yet if I might be able to put his name into the ring but I will today.  Even as he might not get the nod his presence might carry the CWA to create healthy dialogue and find ways to future agreements.  He is passionate about the bible and the hermeneutic issues that tend to bog down the ELCA.  He would be a viable candidate, he was a successful pastor, he is a successful professor of New Testament, a man who champions tradition, Lutheran theology, identity, and he brings excellence as a way of life.  Of course, if he were editing my slop here at would fail, but my belief is that he might bring back some of those 250,000 folks that have left the church over issues not essential to the meaning of being a Lutheran Christian. 

PJ   

You'll have to let us know if he is willing for his name to be put out there.  I knew about his qualities as a teacher and a pastor, but I did not/do not know how well known he is... enough to be elected?
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 03:00:15 PM
Janaine would turn the ELCA upside down and bring it back to the Gospel!!! :>)

Vern

Pr. Jaynan Clark-Egland for those of you who continue to be spelling impaired.

Priest RKM
Priest Robert K. McMeekin I have had a flashback...class, class, I need you to write 8 or more times the name Jaynan Clark-Egland.
 


Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.

I couldn't spell or write her name one more time my ADD would not allow it.  So does she go by Jane or Jaynan?  Is she high church or low church, is it Rev. Jaynan, Pastor Jaynan, or Rev. Clark-Egland?  Not that we will be on a first or last name basis  but I just wanted to know.
 
OK now I probably will remember how to spell her name correctly, now where have I misplaced that Gerund?  On a more serous note about a D Major,  How many of the voters at the CWA will be friendlies of the WAN, LC3 and other groups like this?

You can call me PJ, Peej, or Pastor Jeff, but don't ever call me in the morning...  
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 03:06:13 PM
Keith,

When the sexuality papers pro and con were being written, he was very compassionate to those that were GLBT but he reflects a traditional position on sexuality statements based on his understanding of scripture.  He has gone to almost every synod in the US and he has spoken to the issues that this church currently faces and he could be a viable candidate for the position of Presiding Bishop.  http://www.trinitylutheranseminary.edu/Faculty-Staff/TaylorVita2.pdf  Check out his Vita.

PJ
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Eric_Swensson on July 09, 2007, 03:09:40 PM
Pastor Jaynan Clark Egland. That is from the WA site. Perhaps she once was hypnenated but I haven't seen it that way in the three years I've been working with them.

Jeff, she's a gal-durned cowgirl, she wears cowboy boots, and that ain't no Gucci slippers that the pope favors.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: pilgrimpriest on July 09, 2007, 03:10:49 PM
Janaine would turn the ELCA upside down and bring it back to the Gospel!!! :>)

Vern

Pr. Jaynan Clark-Egland for those of you who continue to be spelling impaired.

Priest RKM
Priest Robert K. McMeekin I have had a flashback...class, class, I need you to write 8 or more times the name Jaynan Clark-Egland.
 


Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.

I couldn't spell or write her name one more time my ADD would not allow it.  So does she go by Jane or Jaynan?  Is she high church or low church, is it Rev. Jaynan, Pastor Jaynan, or Rev. Clark-Egland?  Not that we will be on a first or last name basis  but I just wanted to know.
 
OK now I probably will remember how to spell her name correctly, now where have I misplaced that Gerund?  On a more serous note about a D Major,  How many of the voters at the CWA will be friendlies of the WAN, LC3 and other groups like this?

You can call me PJ, Peej, or Pastor Jeff, but don't ever call me in the morning...   


A minor correction, drop the hyphen. And no, she's nothing like "high-church" and probably never will be.

Priest RKM
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 03:16:19 PM
Is it any wonder why I get so confused? ??? So once again Jaynan Clark Egland?  Or is it JaynanClarkEgland? Or is it PJ?
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: janielou13 on July 09, 2007, 03:58:16 PM
Wally Taylor is a nice guy,,,,,,, does he really deserve the PBship?  I've known Wally for years first as a prof and outside the classroom,,,,,, truly one of a kind.
He would be a shoo in if he showed up at the assembly with his little red wagon in tow.  No one could vote against a man who carries all his worldly goods around in a little red wagon.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Vern on July 09, 2007, 03:58:52 PM
Thank you for the correction. Vote for her!!!!

Vern
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Deb_H. on July 09, 2007, 04:14:09 PM
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
 So does she go by Jane or Jaynan?  Is she high church or low church, is it Rev. Jaynan, Pastor Jaynan, or Rev. Clark-Egland?  Not that we will be on a first or last name basis  but I just wanted to know.

My good friend goes by Jaynan.  She will answer to everything from "hey you" to Rev. Clark Egland.
She is of German-Irish descent, born and raised in Iowa.  Her husband, Steve, was born and raised in MN; they met at Luther Sem.  They have 4 children and two big dogs (a great dane and a Brazilian mastiff).  Steve was a Navy chaplain for a time and the couple served as missionaries in Tanzania for 7 years (I believe); they currently serve as pastors of Prince of Peace in NW Spokane (she is part time).

Definitely low church.  For a meeting with the leadership at Concordia Seminary at St. Louis, Jaynan wore cowboy boots (her favorite footwear) and a black leather skirt.  Some sort of shirt, but definitely no collar.

Jaynan has a very close relationship with Jim Nestingen, and I believe Steve Paulson was a classmate of hers while at Luther.

She's fun, but can be tiring to be around because of all of her energy.  When you become a friend, be prepared for bruises (literally) 'cause she's always punching you in the arm to make a point.  :o)
What you see is what you get; definitely no pretenses, false or otherwise, with the Eglands.

Debbie and I have enjoyed the Eglands hospitality several times; we live 120 miles apart out here in the PNW, and they were the ones who granted us sanctuary in their congregation when we were booted from our local ELCA congregation.

Lou Hesse
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 05:17:04 PM
Wally Taylor is a nice guy,,,,,,, does he really deserve the PBship?  I've known Wally for years first as a prof and outside the classroom,,,,,, truly one of a kind.
He would be a shoo in if he showed up at the assembly with his little red wagon in tow.  No one could vote against a man who carries all his worldly goods around in a little red wagon.

Janielou13,

No one deserves to be a pastor, or a Presiding Bishop.  But if I take your point he doesn't deserve that kind of pain but in leading this church he would be one to listen to all sides while helping to recenter the church in the Lutheran Confessions, and Biblical Authority.  You are correct if he showed up at the assembly with his little red wagon in tow he would win.

PJ 
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: JMOtterman on July 09, 2007, 05:20:08 PM
Her name is Jaynan Clark-Egland.
 So does she go by Jane or Jaynan?  Is she high church or low church, is it Rev. Jaynan, Pastor Jaynan, or Rev. Clark-Egland?  Not that we will be on a first or last name basis  but I just wanted to know.

My good friend goes by Jaynan.  She will answer to everything from "hey you" to Rev. Clark Egland.
She is of German-Irish descent, born and raised in Iowa.  Her husband, Steve, was born and raised in MN; they met at Luther Sem.  They have 4 children and two big dogs (a great dane and a Brazilian mastiff).  Steve was a Navy chaplain for a time and the couple served as missionaries in Tanzania for 7 years (I believe); they currently serve as pastors of Prince of Peace in NW Spokane (she is part time).

Definitely low church.  For a meeting with the leadership at Concordia Seminary at St. Louis, Jaynan wore cowboy boots (her favorite footwear) and a black leather skirt.  Some sort of shirt, but definitely no collar.

Jaynan has a very close relationship with Jim Nestingen, and I believe Steve Paulson was a classmate of hers while at Luther.

She's fun, but can be tiring to be around because of all of her energy.  When you become a friend, be prepared for bruises (literally) 'cause she's always punching you in the arm to make a point.  :o)
What you see is what you get; definitely no pretenses, false or otherwise, with the Eglands.

Debbie and I have enjoyed the Eglands hospitality several times; we live 120 miles apart out here in the PNW, and they were the ones who granted us sanctuary in their congregation when we were booted from our local ELCA congregation.

Lou Hesse

Lou,

Jaynan sounds like a force to deal with would she be willing to come and speak to the folks at St. James Lutheran in Belle Fourche, SD?  Is Jaynan coming to the CWA as a voting delegate or just an observor?  Lou, you can email me.

PJ
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Dave_Poedel on July 09, 2007, 06:55:32 PM
Perhaps we could get the spelling of her name right (I have trouble myself) it is the Rev. Jaynan Clark Egland.

Listen, here is a link to a conference held by the Canadian group, Soild Ground, and you can listen to two of her talks and several by Dr. Jim Nestingen (I mispell his, too). http://www.solid-ground.ca/a-conferencereport2.htm

WHOA!  I am not in the ELCA, but this is my kind of leader!  Maybe because I wore cowboy boots for 30 years and was in the quarter horse business (blown out back meant getting rid of my cutting horses and getting out of the business), but to phrase it in a decidedly non PC way "this is my kind of gal". I plan to listen to both of her talks, but the recording of the first talk was pretty broken up--and I have a high speed connection.  Thanks for the links.  I know Jim Nestigen from STS.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Mike Bennett on July 09, 2007, 08:57:08 PM

Debbie and I have enjoyed the Eglands hospitality several times; we live 120 miles apart out here in the PNW, and they were the ones who granted us sanctuary in their congregation when we were booted from our local ELCA congregation.

Lou Hesse

You were what?  Is there a brief summary account for those who've not heard it before?

Mike Bennett
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Deb_H. on July 10, 2007, 01:04:40 AM
Jaynan sounds like a force to deal with would she be willing to come and speak to the folks at St. James Lutheran in Belle Fourche, SD?  Is Jaynan coming to the CWA as a voting delegate or just an observor?  Lou, you can email me.

Jaynan attends ELCA churchwide assemblies as part of her work as president of the WordAlone Network.  She could never be elected as a voting member from the E.WA-Idaho synod.
Contact information for Jaynan (http://www.wordalone.org/contact.shtml) can be found on the WordAlone website.  Generally speaking, she's willing to go anywhere to talk about WordAlone, but she is a busy lady, pastor, wife, and mother.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Deb_H. on July 10, 2007, 01:15:45 AM
You were what?  Is there a brief summary account for those who've not heard it before?

In Luther’s explanation of the 8th commandment in the Large Catechism, we are admonished to put the best construction on everything for the sake of our neighbor’s reputation, until we are questioned by the established authorities about our neighbor’s wrongdoing.  For us to “give our spin” on what happened leading up to our exodus, without the other side having an opportunity to also state their views, would be improper. 

Until such time as the proper authorities, either congregational or synodical, request testimony from us regarding the specifics of our “complaints,”  we intend to respect the process, even though we believe the process thusfar has failed us and the congregation.  We needed to have access to word and sacrament, an opportunity for confession, study, and fellowship; therefore we sought sanctuary and were granted same by our friends. 

The temptation is to say much more, but at this point, the temptation needs to be resisted.  That is our cross in this situation.

Lou & Debbie Hesse
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: Vern on July 10, 2007, 08:46:58 AM
JMOtterman,
If Jaynan does come to speak you might be in for a surprise.  Don't get me wrong, she is a wonderful speaker. At the WordAlone convention last year she got up on the stage and read a Dr Seuss book about cutting down trees. I thought  this is dumb. You may note, i have not forgotten it. The final sentence after all the trees had been cut down was "I have a seed".

Vern
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: navyman on July 10, 2007, 12:09:29 PM
As a Member of the ELCA, pew type, I believe Hanson will be reelected without question.

He is an outstanding Liberal, and one who supports the gay agenda and gay ordination.  With 17 Synods, thus far in favor of it,
it looks like gay ordination is a possibility.  More so this time around then in the 2005 CWA.

Peace!

Don
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: mchristi on July 16, 2007, 05:06:45 PM
Given that the secretary's position is mostly a widget counter (can you call pastors and church members widgets?) and constitution interpreter

and the most useless and uneccessary elected position in the ELCA.  The tasks are clerical, for the most part, and can be taken care of entirely by office staff members, as they generally are anyway.  Supervision for those who report to the Secretary can be placed under the presiding bishop, one of the program unit directors, or some other operations/administration director.  The constitution intepretation function, the only non-clerical function of the Secretary, should be placed in a constitutional review panel.

Mark C.
Title: Re: ELCA Churchwide Elections
Post by: bmj on July 23, 2007, 02:19:00 AM
Is past record considered during the election of the ELCA PB?  By what metrics can/should an existing PB be measured?  The latest membership numbers are out for the ELCA.  During every year of leadership under the current PB the ELCA has seen a membership decline significantly higher -- about double or more -- that any year prior to Bishop Hanson's election (see column 3 in the table - elected in 2001).

  http://www.elca.org/news/table.html
  http://www.elca.org/news/Releases.asp?a=3641

I realize that the usefulness of membership number trends as an indicator of denominational health is limited and has been discussed here many times.  However, they are an indication and they are real data.  The trend under PB Hanson seems to be clear.  Is he not ultimately responsible for the stewardship of the souls in the ELCA?  In all honesty, how has he performed?  Are there other strongly positive metrics one should consider during Bishop Hanson's term?