ALPB Forum Online

ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: RogerMartim on January 14, 2014, 04:50:20 PM

Title: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: RogerMartim on January 14, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
...for making a mockery of our faith.

For some dedicated football fans, Sunday games tend to take precedent over basically everything else in life. And a pastor in Montana is no exception -- especially when kickoff interferes with church services.

This is Pastor Tim Christensen of Goldhill Lutheran Church in Montana. He was sked to lead the 11am service, the same time the 49ers and Panthers were scheduled to kick off on TV.

That's quite the dilemma. So he decided to speed things up a little, cutting his service down to only a minute.

'I was thinking we might have just a little bit of an abbreviated service,' he told the congregation. Then asks, 'Would you all like to be forgiven for your sins? OK, that's great, you are ... There's some bread and some wine up here on the table -- you feel free to help yourself if you'd like to.'

Though Christensen said he doesn't have any vested interest in the game, he proves otherwise false when he goes on to take off his robe displaying a bright red 49ers shirt.

Talk about setting your priorities!

GMA's Josh Elliot chimed in during morning coverage saying he wishes this is something his pastor would have done when he was young and growing up in LA. 'I would say, 'Mom, God wants me to watch this game,' a fight I never won.'

While this far-from typical Sunday morning is making the rounds and even getting some flack, turns out the hurried service is actually prank. The entire congregation knows Christensen is a big 49ers fan, and he held a full service afterwards.

Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on January 14, 2014, 04:52:28 PM
Guess you sure fooled us!   ::)
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: swbohler on January 14, 2014, 04:58:15 PM
Some things should not be made the object of jokes, sport, or spoofs.  Worship is just about at the top of that list.
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on January 14, 2014, 05:00:37 PM
you cannot defrock him because he had no VESTED interest in the game   Harvey Mozolak
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Michael Slusser on January 14, 2014, 05:39:42 PM
you cannot defrock him because he had no VESTED interest in the game   Harvey Mozolak

Give a pastor a weekend off and he switches from poetry to stand-up . . . .  :)

Peace,
Michael
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on January 14, 2014, 05:55:00 PM
There are congregations with a tradition of high, solemn church masses; and others with a tradition of low brow, informal, masses. Some will use: "The Lord be with you." "And also with you." (Or, "And with your spirit.") Others may say, "We're gonna pray now."


I wear black shoes, socks, pants, and clerical for worship. My colleague 14 miles away, wears sandals (sometimes socks,) khaki shorts, and a blue clerical. I play a bit of a jazz piano for worship. At the colleagues, they have more classical organ.


I've argued for years that before critique a worship service, one needs to establish the criteria that should be used for critiquing a liturgy. Is "I like it" a good criteria? Are the proper, traditional vestments a good criteria? Is the somberness or number of jokes good criteria?


By what reasons does one judge the stunt to be bad worship for that pastor in that congregation?
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on January 14, 2014, 06:01:07 PM
see, Michael, the problem is --
it hasn't only been only one weekend
off but about 16 plus feasts, saints days and festivals.  Harvey
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Dan Fienen on January 14, 2014, 06:06:08 PM
If he had done his one minute service and then left to go watch the game  that would have been totally improper.  That it was a joke (stunt) and the service continued afterwards makes a difference.  Personally I would find it a bit over the top but I guess you had to be there. 

Dan
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Harvey_Mozolak on January 14, 2014, 06:17:33 PM
Clergy in Pittsburgh used to wear stoles and I think even chasubles in black and gold for Steeler Sundays ... I think that is frocking too much or too little... I couldn't do it if you offered a $1000 to missions for the misdeed but then I can be Pastor Prune.  Course I had ushers who took the offering wear Steeler ties and then there are the countless men who have worn stoles, I mean ties, that play Jingle Bells, on Christmas Eve and intentionally set them off while kneeling for HC... should they be excommunicated per diem at least?   Harvey
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Charles_Austin on January 14, 2014, 07:00:16 PM
Unless the "he should be defrocked" at the head of this thread is a joke (and I fear it is not), we have here a sad example of how some of us are so tightly-wrapped and all-fired "serious" and defensive and maniacal about one thing or another that we call for thumb screws and the rack if we fear someone has tinkered with whatever we have declared untinkerable.
And we call out the guards without even going far enough into the alleged offense to see if it was indeed an offense.
Sad.
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: pearson on January 14, 2014, 07:29:51 PM

If he had done his one minute service and then left to go watch the game  that would have been totally improper.  That it was a joke (stunt) and the service continued afterwards makes a difference.  Personally I would find it a bit over the top but I guess you had to be there. 


Frankly, I think the man needs a good Butte-whipping.

Tom Pearson
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: LutherMan on January 14, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
It was very unnerving the way he did C&A and then offered wine and bread.  Very.  Poor.  Taste...
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Dan Fienen on January 14, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
It was very unnerving the way he did C&A and then offered wine and bread.  Very.  Poor.  Taste...
Remember, he didn't actually just offer bread and wine,, they were offered later in the contxt of a full service.

Dan
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Jim Thacker on January 14, 2014, 10:50:28 PM
At the risk of putting myself at the mercy of some on this forum I will confess that serving my first parish in Montana I would often wear my town softball uniform under my robe so I would at least have a chance of making a Sunday tournament game. I did not, however, cut the service short or leave anything out just to hurry things along. I don't think anyone, other than my wife, knew when I did this. I never thought this was much different than the hunters and fishermen in the congregation wearing their hunting and fishing outfits to worship. And another confession, the organist of the congregation I served in Northern Virginia was known to play "Hail to the Redskins" as a postlude on Super Bowl Sunday. That of course was many years ago... Both of these congregations were wonderful people of God being disciples together in the world. I believe they all realized divine worship was a special place to meet God who was the One who then sent them back into the world to be His witnesses, servants, and lights. I thought it a blessing when we didn't ignore what was happening in the world but connected it to our living out our faith in Jesus Christ. 
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: dkeener on January 15, 2014, 08:12:59 AM
One year when the final round of the Master's Golf Tournament fell on Easter Sunday (our church is about 15 minutes away from Augusta National), one of my parishioners gave me two Badges that he was unable to use that day.  I jokingly asked him if he was trying to get me to shorten my sermon.  I didn't - and still made it to the first tee by 1:30.   ;D
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Keith Falk on January 15, 2014, 09:49:31 AM
The more I reflect, the less bent out of shape I am about the whole thing.


Really, I will not believe you if you say there has never been a minute's worth of speech in your ministry that could have been taken out of context and blown up in this way.  Whether during announcements... Sunday School class... a fellowship event; I know I've said some silly things that - in context - were perfectly appropriate.  But if someone had used their phone and recorded JustThatOneMinute... well, I imagine that I would look pretty foolish.


The most worrisome part of this is that so many of us (myself included!) believed the headlines - that there was actually just a one minute worship/sermon.  My gut response wasn't, "That can't be right!"; it was, "Of COURSE some idiot pastor did that".
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Marshall_Hahn on January 15, 2014, 10:56:55 AM
A number of years ago, at a service on April 1, I got in the pulpit and told the congregation that it had been a really busy week and I did not have time to adequately prepare for the sermon.  So, rather than do a disservice to God's Word by preaching a poor sermon, I invited the people to simply sit and meditate on the day's readings for the next 5 minutes or so.  Then I sat down.  After about 15 seconds I got up and said, "April fool's!"  Some of them saw it coming, and some were getting ready to clean out the parsonage.  My little joke was probably worse than the one mentioned above since I did this in the middle of the worship service.  As described in the first post what this pastor did happened before worship had (really) begun. 

As Margaret Hamilton might say, such things must be done "del-icately."

Marshall Hahn
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: J. Thomas Shelley on January 15, 2014, 09:37:12 PM
Clergy in Pittsburgh used to wear stoles and I think even chasubles in black and gold for Steeler Sundays ...
]In 2004 the Steelers played in the Superbowl a couple of months after the fatal shooting of PSP Cpl Raymond Pokorny
I told the congregation that I follow the rubrics of the church year, but if it were strictly up to me....I then held up a black maniple with gold trim..."go Steelers".

The fallen Trooper was a close relative to a team member and the Steelers had done a lot to help the family through the tragedy.

Cpl Pokorny's son graduated from the PSP Academy last March, becoming the child of a fallen Trooper to join the force in the department's 108 year history.

Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Tom Senge on January 16, 2014, 11:47:03 AM
Just a thought....has any who are so put out by this actually adhered to Mt. 18 and contacted this pastor?
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: swbohler on January 16, 2014, 12:01:21 PM
Rev. Senge,

I should think that few things are more public than news articles in print, on broadcast news, and the internet.  If what this pastor did IS a sin (the premise of Jesus' instructions in Matthew 18), then it is a very public sin.  And per the Large Catechism, the instructions of Matthew 18 would not apply.
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Terry W Culler on January 16, 2014, 12:04:42 PM
If this is the worst thing to happen in an American pulpit that week--well, thanks be to God.  My only question--why did it get out any further than the people in sanctuary and the folks they spoke to the next day?  Why is everything public today?
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Steven Tibbetts on January 16, 2014, 01:25:46 PM
If this is the worst thing to happen in an American pulpit that week--well, thanks be to God.  My only question--why did it get out any further than the people in sanctuary and the folks they spoke to the next day?  Why is everything public today?

His son posted the video.

spt+
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on January 16, 2014, 02:03:41 PM
Rev. Senge,

I should think that few things are more public than news articles in print, on broadcast news, and the internet.  If what this pastor did IS a sin (the premise of Jesus' instructions in Matthew 18), then it is a very public sin.  And per the Large Catechism, the instructions of Matthew 18 would not apply.


Note also Matthew 18:15 (emphasis added): "If your brother or sister sins against you," Did he sin against you? If so, you are to go and speak to him privately. If not, Matthew 18 doesn't apply.
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: DCharlton on January 16, 2014, 03:36:33 PM
I'm all for supporting one's team, as long as it matches the color of the day or season.  So, for instance:

Advent:  Chelsea or Everton
Christmas and Easter: Tottenham
Epiphany: Celtic
Pentecost: Man U or Liverpool (not both!)

I still need one for Lent.
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: pr dtp on January 18, 2014, 04:18:33 PM
I'm all for supporting one's team, as long as it matches the color of the day or season.  So, for instance:

Advent:  Chelsea or Everton
Christmas and Easter: Tottenham
Epiphany: Celtic
Pentecost: Man U or Liverpool (not both!)

I still need one for Lent.

The Minnesota VIkings - (quite appropriate giving the pain they cause in the fall to Vikings fans)
Title: Re: I think this pastor should be defrocked...
Post by: Pr. Luke Zimmerman on January 20, 2014, 03:03:39 PM
I'm all for supporting one's team, as long as it matches the color of the day or season.  So, for instance:

Advent:  Chelsea or Everton
Christmas and Easter: Tottenham
Epiphany: Celtic
Pentecost: Man U or Liverpool (not both!)

I still need one for Lent.

There are no British football home purple kits that come to mind.

But the options from other European nations include RSC Anderlecht (Belgium) and AFC Fiorentina (Italy). Anderlecht often makes the Champions League qualifiers or group stages, but don't advance pass that. A bit of humbling, since they can't seem to achieve victory for themselves. Perhaps it's a fitting Lenten message.