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ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: Mike Gehlhausen on October 31, 2012, 12:35:31 PM

Title: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on October 31, 2012, 12:35:31 PM
The ballots for nomination of President, First Vice President, and Second Through Fifth Vice Presidents have been sent to congregations. If you have not received yours yet, you should soon.

They are due back by February 20.

Who should be nominated? I have listed some prominent names and have also perhaps forgotten one or two. I will revise the poll early on if I have forgotten someone that really needs to be listed.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on October 31, 2012, 12:58:35 PM
Well, I guess one can vote for oneself....  ;)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: J. Eriksson on October 31, 2012, 07:59:12 PM
Does this mean that LCMS has to constitutionally have more than 2 names on the ballot?   That LCMS has to find one or more sacrificial names for ballot fodder?  I guess ballot fodder is better than cannon fodder. 

IIRC this group had great fun teasing Dan Gard last time....I'm looking forward to something just as entertaining.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on October 31, 2012, 08:20:11 PM
IIRC this group had great fun teasing Dan Gard last time....I'm looking forward to something just as entertaining.

Me, too.  Hopefully at his expense again.  ;D
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on November 01, 2012, 09:11:59 AM
Does this mean that LCMS has to constitutionally have more than 2 names on the ballot?   That LCMS has to find one or more sacrificial names for ballot fodder?  I guess ballot fodder is better than cannon fodder. 

Yep, I believe that bylaws require five candidates to be listed on the election ballot given the convention.

With all of the declinations last year in support of Dr. Harrison (and Dr. Kieschnick), I believe that the list got down to 3 ballot nominations before Dr. Fickenscher and Chaplain Gard accepted the nomination to end the seeking of candidates.   I heard some discussion then about accepting only those candidates nominated over a certain level of say 50 or even 10 up to the first five. 

That would have left us with Harrison, Kieschnick, and Diekelman (it seems since each congregation gets two nominations; the First VP is often nominated when the incumbent president is nominated and then the nominations switched for First VP).

IIRC this group had great fun teasing Dan Gard last time....I'm looking forward to something just as entertaining.

All kidding aside, based on his Lutheran Witness candidate Q & A responses, I believe Chaplain Gard would make an excellent president.  I believe that it was after those responses that a lot of the ribbing took place because the idea that he was a viable candidate was strengthened somewhat. 

Of course, I believe that Chaplain Gard's support of Dr. Harrison over himself and knowledge that Dr. Harrison was the consensus candidate against Dr. Kieschnick led him to a a freeness of candor that candidates truly invested in being elected usually find politically unwise.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on November 01, 2012, 11:46:32 AM
Correction.  It was Rev. Herbert Mueller, Jr. who received the third presidential nomination and not Dr. Diekelman.

Of those receiving the highest number of nominating votes for the office of President, the following have given their consent to serve if elected:

* Matthew Harrison -- 1,332
* Gerald Kieschnick -- 755
* Herbert Mueller Jr. -- 503
* Carl Fickenscher II -- 5
* Daniel Gard -- 3

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on November 01, 2012, 11:59:30 AM
I think Dcs. Schave should be nominated for president!  It is about time we lived up to our name as The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Missouri, O-H-I-O, and Other States Even Including That Mis-Shapen State Located To The North of Ohio.  Who better to serve the church than a servant of the church?  And when that is combined with someone who lives in Ohio and has connections to The Ohio State University, all that is to the better.  Besides, which Div. 1 university has TLH 166 as the tune for their school song? 

Dcs. Schave in 2013!

Jeremy
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on November 01, 2012, 12:02:54 PM
I would have to get on the fast track to ordination.   ;)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on November 01, 2012, 12:18:32 PM
While Jeremy Loesch has his calendar mixed up,
it is November 1, not April 1. The humor is greatly
appreciated and I would second the nomination
of Kim.

The reality is that Pastor Matthew Harrison faces
no opposition for a second term. He is a slam-dunk
to continue as President of the LCMS in  2013.

The last 4 LCMS Presidents have averaged about
10 years in office:  Preus (12 years) Bohlmann (11)
Barry (9) and Kieschnick (9)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on November 01, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
. . . and I'd have to grow a mustache.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on November 01, 2012, 01:13:39 PM
While Jeremy Loesch has his calendar mixed up,
it is November 1, not April 1. The humor is greatly
appreciated and I would second the nomination
of Kim.

I'd support Dcs. Schave as well.

Perhaps more seriously to the point, this brings up the often-debated but rarely seriously engaged question of whether the synodical and district presidents in the LCMS should be seen as called ministers or elected administrators.

I think most agree that a synodical or district president should be theologically gifted.  But are they called?  Do they need to be ordained to perform their administrative duties within the LCMS and to represent the LCMS to those outside it?

Right now, the synodical president must by bylaw be an ordained minister.  Must this be?

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on November 01, 2012, 02:38:58 PM
The last Synodical President to wear a mustache
was Rev. H.C. Schwan who served from 1878 to
l899.  This raises the question: "Why was there
no Synodical President in the 20th century who
wore a mustache?"

Perhaps the wives of our Synodical Presidents
after Schwan preferred clean shaven men.  It
should be noted that Schwan also had a full
untrimmed beard.  It is not a pretty picture for
the archives of the LCMS.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Keith Falk on November 01, 2012, 03:57:00 PM
Why - if being a district or synodical president is NOT a call - can't a non-ordained person serve in that position?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on November 01, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
Why - if being a district or synodical president is NOT a call - can't a non-ordained person serve in that position?

Because of bylaws right now.

Your question is the question which needs to be addressed in determining whether the bylaw has any theological foundation to it.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: swbohler on November 01, 2012, 04:08:35 PM
Why - if being a district or synodical president is NOT a call - can't a non-ordained person serve in that position?

Because the Constitution of the LCMS says that the President, Vice Presidents, and Secretary of the Synod must all be ordained.   :) 

Seriously, just because these offices are not called does not mean that they do not require a certain degree of theological training.  Some churchly offices are filled by calls because they involve the public exercising of the Office of the Keys.  Other churchly offices are filled in other ways -- such as elections or appointments or even applications/interviews/hiring -- because they do not publicly exercise the Keys.

As far as Mr. Gehlhausen's post immediately before this one, please note that it is the Constitution and not simply the bylaws that requires these offices to be held by ordained men (bylaws are much easier to change). 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Keith Falk on November 01, 2012, 04:21:14 PM
I understand the difficulties of changing a constitution, and, seeing as how I am not LCMS, I don't have a horse in the race. 


But if theological training is good/desired for the position - while accepting that it isn't a called position - couldn't someone like a deaconess serve in that position?  Or is there a theological reason why the SP should be ordained?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: swbohler on November 01, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
I understand the difficulties of changing a constitution, and, seeing as how I am not LCMS, I don't have a horse in the race. 


But if theological training is good/desired for the position - while accepting that it isn't a called position - couldn't someone like a deaconess serve in that position?  Or is there a theological reason why the SP should be ordained?

I would think that pastoral experience would be seen as indispensable to the office.  Sort of like the LCMS requirement that seminary professors have served a minimum number of years in the field.  Could a layman possess adequate theological knowledge to be a seminary professor?  Sure.  But he would not have the practical experience that aids in applying that knowledge in real-life situations as a pastor would/should have.  Similarly, a non-ordained synod president could possess adequate theological knowledge to "do the job" but he would lack the pastoral experience that greatly aids in carrying out that office.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on November 01, 2012, 04:43:51 PM
Could a layman possess adequate theological knowledge to be a seminary professor?  Sure.  But he would not have the practical experience that aids in applying that knowledge in real-life situations as a pastor would/should have.  Similarly, a non-ordained synod president could possess adequate theological knowledge to "do the job" but he would lack the pastoral experience that greatly aids in carrying out that office.

Martin Franzmann was by all accounts an excellent seminary professor.

Philipp Melancthon wrote much of the Book of Concord.

Neither were ordained.

And who is to say that congregational service as a deacon or deaconess would not provide the practical experience in a congregation needed?

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Charles_Austin on November 01, 2012, 04:50:49 PM
When H. George Anderson, a seminary professor, was a candidate for Presiding Bishop in the ELCA, he was asked about his supposed "lack" of "parish experience." He explained calmly that he did not lack parish experience, for he had been an active member of parishes all his life. The thought that only a pastor can understand "pastoral" ministry is absurd.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: swbohler on November 01, 2012, 06:15:58 PM
When H. George Anderson, a seminary professor, was a candidate for Presiding Bishop in the ELCA, he was asked about his supposed "lack" of "parish experience." He explained calmly that he did not lack parish experience, for he had been an active member of parishes all his life. The thought that only a pastor can understand "pastoral" ministry is absurd.

Sheep may think they know what shepherd does but they know only a small portion.  No one -- no one -- in my congregations knows what it means to be a pastor.  They have an idea about this or that part, but they have no concept of the entirety. 

Similarly, I may think I know what a synod or district president does but I really do not.  I know bits and pieces but not all that they do.  However, I would think that, on average, a pastor would have a better handle on it than a parochial school teacher, or deaconess, or Director of Christian Education, or other church worker because pastors typically have more interaction with district presidents.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: swbohler on November 01, 2012, 06:25:06 PM
Could a layman possess adequate theological knowledge to be a seminary professor?  Sure.  But he would not have the practical experience that aids in applying that knowledge in real-life situations as a pastor would/should have.  Similarly, a non-ordained synod president could possess adequate theological knowledge to "do the job" but he would lack the pastoral experience that greatly aids in carrying out that office.

Martin Franzmann was by all accounts an excellent seminary professor.

Philipp Melancthon wrote much of the Book of Concord.

Neither were ordained.

And who is to say that congregational service as a deacon or deaconess would not provide the practical experience in a congregation needed?

Mike

Neither of those men were synod presidents either.  :)

Melanchthon and Franzmann get brought up because they are exceptions (or maybe better stated, exceptional).  General rules are designed based on the normal, not the extraordinary.  Jesus was not ordained but I would have no problem with Him as my synod president.  But that does not mean that ANY non-ordained person is capable of the job.  Could a deacon or deaconess (or parochial school teacher or DCE or other church worker) have the desired theological knowledge and experience in applying it to do the job of synod president?  I suppose so.  But are we going to say that ANY deaconess or deacon or other church worker does?  If not, then how do you write the bit in the Constitution about "job qualifications"? 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dan Fienen on November 01, 2012, 06:51:55 PM
Some of the most difficult members I've had to deal with are those who think that they could.ve been good pastor if they had so decided.  Since I did not do things their way, or have their personality, obviously I was not that good of a pastor.
 
Dan
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Charles_Austin on November 01, 2012, 10:27:21 PM
The suggestion that only another pastor can truly "understand" a pastor or the pastoral ministry is - in my not so humble opinion - a harbinger of the worst kind of arrogant clericalism. You have your boards of elders, we have mutual ministry committees, both designed to help the pastor and evaluate the ministry. They know enough, understand enough, and are smart and Christian enough to do so.
We are not so special as we sometimes like to think.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: swbohler on November 01, 2012, 10:41:52 PM
Rev. Austin,

I did not say that laymen do not understand the pastoral ministry.  I said they do not know all that a pastor does.  They know bits and pieces -- those things they see and hear -- but they do not know all of it.  Just as, I said, I do not know all that a district or synod president does.  I know bits and pieces -- those things I see and hear of his work -- but there is MUCH behind the scenes stuff that I do not know.  And cannot know, really.  Or, to use another analogy, I know some of what a parent does but, not having children myself, I do not know what it is really like to be a father.  Some things you just have to do in order to really know the depth and breadth of them. 

By the way, I think you are special.   :)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on November 02, 2012, 08:36:51 AM
Melanchthon and Franzmann get brought up because they are exceptions (or maybe better stated, exceptional).  General rules are designed based on the normal, not the extraordinary.

Yes, but Dcs. Schave is exceptional so my point stands.  ;)

MIke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: swbohler on November 02, 2012, 10:52:47 AM
I'll not argue about Deaconess Schave being exceptional.  But that is still not a reason to change a constitutional requirement.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on November 02, 2012, 03:30:44 PM
Needing a little break here in the midst of a tremendous unfolding disaster/mess in NY/NJ Metro.  National Guard at the gas station down the block from my parish with mile long lines.  Staten Island terrifically hit with 20-30 deaths.

Our Atlantic District disaster response hit the ground immediately and we have assessed much of the direct need in workers, parishes, but the community needs are just enormous and we're organizing that effort and carrying it out already.  But we have also been accompanied by the national LCMS office, which sent Director of National Mission Bart Day, Disaster Response Coordinator Glen Meritt, and Disaster Response Associate Carlos Hernandez to be with us already on Wednesday evening.  We met with one of our pastors who lost his home out on Long Island, Alan Steinke, and a new AD Pastor, Matt Popovits, and three young Latino men from my parish assisted in that emotional cleanup and removal of treasured belongings.

My point being that one of the marks of leadership is presence in time of trouble, and the Missouri Synod in my opinion stands out in that regard, and has in my experience in the Atlantic District back to the days after September 11 when we founded LDRNY in an inter-Lutheran way.

So nominees need again in my opinion to have an incarnational concept of Lutheran mission and ministry - not above and in the clouds or behind the academic tower of ivory, but down in the mud and the mess where God's people bring His love in the flesh.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on November 02, 2012, 04:21:10 PM
But we have also been accompanied by the national LCMS office, which sent Director of National Mission Bart Day, Disaster Response Coordinator Glen Meritt, and Disaster Response Associate Carlos Hernandez to be with us already on Wednesday evening. 

You were in great hands to be sure.  I suspect a whole lot of help is on the way soon, Pres. Benke.  It will just take a little time for the initial confusion (present in the aftermath of every disaster) to pass.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Weedon on November 02, 2012, 09:53:19 PM
Bishop,

Thank you so much for the bit of update. Know that we remembered the devastation a number of times in prayer at the International Conference. May the Lord have great use of His children in these distressing times to minister to overwhelming human need and to share an even more overwhelming and certain hope - a home that cannot be taken away or destroyed.  Koinonia - also the term for the sharing in earthly goods with those in need.  A blessed thing, communion.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on November 02, 2012, 09:59:25 PM
thanks for the prayers.  We have a great local disaster response group, and some fine congregations on the ground - the assistance from the national level gives that sense that there IS a wider church, and that there are people who will be there through the storm.  If you go to lcms.org, there are pics and videos including one of me with a Green Bay Packers cap on (couldn't resist) at the side of one of our pastors who lost his home on Long Island.  But there's a pic of two young men there who are my parishioners, who helped dig out that place - it's really about the incarnational aspect of the ministry of Jesus, pure and simple.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Weedon on November 02, 2012, 10:09:04 PM
Cindi (my wife) and I were talking about it just last night. She said with tears in her eyes: "We always have the Church. People come through for each other." We'd heard about Pr. Steinke's home and had seen the pic - we specifically prayed for him and the other homeless. But it was such a comfort to know that the Synod, local and national, was there already. It's a comfort to be part of a family and to know how open that family's embrace is of those in need.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: George Erdner on November 02, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
This LCMS thread is up to 30 posts. Is it too soon to turn it into a discussion of women's ordination yet?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: S. Wesley Mcgranor on November 02, 2012, 11:03:17 PM
 I picked the present one. The minister at the Lutheran church i frequent, says he is fairly up-to-par with some concerns i share.
 I'd like to mention Herman J. Otten, whom i believe would make a splendid president. I have heard that the heirarchy of the L.C.M.S. doesn't appreciate him. I know he has recently retired. I never met him, or went to his church. I figure if the bureaucracy is perturbed by him, he must be a-1. I have read some of his writings.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Matt Staneck on November 03, 2012, 09:59:43 AM
Fully realizing I'm contributing to the change of topic here I'm happy to report that power is restored to the folks in Lower Manhattan including to the folks in Chinatown at my vicarage church.  I was told there will be worship Sunday morning and there will be food.  A joint service of both english and cantonese speaking complete with a spread of food.  I have to say it was sickening watching this unfold Monday night and I am thrilled that the church, specifically my synod, got there as quickly as they could.

In addition to the "green cap," Bishop, seeing Jose and Thomas getting to work was great.

M. Staneck
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: mariemeyer on November 03, 2012, 07:37:12 PM
I picked the present one. The minister at the Lutheran church i frequent, says he is fairly up-to-par with some concerns i share.
 I'd like to mention Herman J. Otten, whom i believe would make a splendid president. I have heard that the heirarchy of the L.C.M.S. doesn't appreciate him. I know he has recently retired. I never met him, or went to his church. I figure if the bureaucracy is perturbed by him, he must be a-1. I have read some of his writings.

Pr. Herman Otten turns 80 on March 3, 2013.

Marie Otten Meyer
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on November 03, 2012, 07:48:15 PM
Fully realizing I'm contributing to the change of topic here I'm happy to report that power is restored to the folks in Lower Manhattan including to the folks in Chinatown at my vicarage church.  I was told there will be worship Sunday morning and there will be food.  A joint service of both english and cantonese speaking complete with a spread of food.  I have to say it was sickening watching this unfold Monday night and I am thrilled that the church, specifically my synod, got there as quickly as they could.

In addition to the "green cap," Bishop, seeing Jose and Thomas getting to work was great.

M. Staneck

Thomas and Jose and others just received 350 buckets, mops and cleaning implements in a truck that came from Arlington Texas over the last two days.  A Lutheran parish and ministry to victims of floods and hurricanes; as one of our Puerto Rican women called and said, "They are such jolly guys!"  Mercy comes in many packages from many locales - this was courtesy of a hook-up nationally that has delivered these implements to floods throughout the midwest.  Now they're in East New York!

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Jeff-MN on November 03, 2012, 07:56:17 PM
Why isn't Rev. Weedon on the list of choices?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Weedon on November 03, 2012, 08:33:40 PM
NEVER, Jeff. NEVER. There are those who are made of the stuff it takes for that thankless job. I'm not. But thanks be to God, President Harrison is. He's wise, clever, crazy, compassionate, and humble.  A scholar and yet jovial, passionate about the Gospel AND about meeting human need in tangible ways.  No faith without works for him.

I confess that I love that man. He's a blessing to our Synod and well beyond.

If that sounds like gushing, well, tough. It's just the truth.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: LutherMan on November 04, 2012, 06:00:31 AM

Pr. Herman Otten turns 80 on March 3, 2013.

Marie Otten Meyer
So what?  When does Marie Otten Meyer turn 80?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: D. Engebretson on November 04, 2012, 07:40:44 AM
President Harrison....He's wise, clever, crazy, compassionate, and humble.  A scholar and yet jovial, passionate about the Gospel AND about meeting human need in tangible ways.  No faith without works for him.

He's a blessing to our Synod and well beyond.

I just had the opportunity to hear Pres. Harrison again at the recent Rural and Small Town Mission Conference this week in Iowa.  I'm always impressed.  He's well grounded in the Word (and Confessions/Luther), yet also very much in touch with real parish needs and genuine pastoral realities.  In talking about Witness, Mercy, Life Together as it relates to rural and small town needs he quickly became passionate about a desire to see a renewal in preaching.  He has also reminded our pastors and lay people about the great need to return to regular visitation.  Back to the basics, the essentials.  I appreciate that.  No gimmicks.  He knows what is ultimately important: our proclamation of the Gospel and the community of believers.  And as Chap. Weedon notes, he is very passionate about meeting human needs.  He has a solid history of doing this, going back to his days at Zion in Ft. Wayne when they worked for renewal of the inner city, and then stretching through the 9 or so years at the LCMS World Relief and Human Care.  He is a rare combination of impeccable and solid scholarship and genuine pastoral compassion.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on November 04, 2012, 08:06:45 AM
President Harrison....He's wise, clever, crazy, compassionate, and humble.  A scholar and yet jovial, passionate about the Gospel AND about meeting human need in tangible ways.  No faith without works for him.

He's a blessing to our Synod and well beyond.

I just had the opportunity to hear Pres. Harrison again at the recent Rural and Small Town Mission Conference this week in Iowa.  I'm always impressed.  He's well grounded in the Word (and Confessions/Luther), yet also very much in touch with real parish needs and genuine pastoral realities.  In talking about Witness, Mercy, Life Together as it relates to rural and small town needs he quickly became passionate about a desire to see a renewal in preaching.  He has also reminded our pastors and lay people about the great need to return to regular visitation.  Back to the basics, the essentials.  I appreciate that.  No gimmicks.  He knows what is ultimately important: our proclamation of the Gospel and the community of believers.  And as Chap. Weedon notes, he is very passionate about meeting human needs.  He has a solid history of doing this, going back to his days at Zion in Ft. Wayne when they worked for renewal of the inner city, and then stretching through the 9 or so years at the LCMS World Relief and Human Care.  He is a rare combination of impeccable and solid scholarship and genuine pastoral compassion.

Bart Day was supposed to be with you, Don, but he was with me.  In fact we were eating at the Parkside Restaurant in Corona Queens and he left to speak via phone to the assembled conference on Friday nite.  And off we went the next day to Staten Island.  So we were happy in NYC that he was with us, even though he was supposed to be with you. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on November 04, 2012, 12:44:34 PM
The one thing I admire about Pastor Herman Otten
is his physical fitness.  As he prepares to blow out
80 candles on his birthday cake next year, he is
a living example of how pastors need to take care
of their physical health and body.  His marathon
runs, swimming, and biking provided an excellent
role model for all pastors.

I played sports at Concordia College, Milwaukee
and Fort Wayne, and Concordia Seminary, St.Louis.,
and the first ten years in the parish.  After that it
is tough to have the self-discipline to stay in shape.
So I commend Pastor Otten for his physical prowess.
He is probably a slam dunk to reach 90 candles on
his birthday cake in ten years.

Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Tim Schenks on November 05, 2012, 02:53:07 AM
I'd like to mention Herman J. Otten, whom i believe would make a splendid president.

He's never been on the LCMS clergy roster so he couldn't be nominated for the position.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Tim Schenks on November 05, 2012, 02:56:06 AM
NEVER, Jeff. NEVER. There are those who are made of the stuff it takes for that thankless job. I'm not.

Since you're in our district now I was going to give you a couple of more years before nominating you to be MO District President. 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Kurt Weinelt on November 05, 2012, 10:08:24 AM
NEVER, Jeff. NEVER. There are those who are made of the stuff it takes for that thankless job. I'm not.
Since you're in our district now I was going to give you a couple of more years before nominating you to be MO District President.
My late father (who was an ELCA pastor applying for ordination in the LCMS via colloquy when he died in 1999) always said any pastor who WANTS to be bishop/president should be automatically disqualified from the office. As I advance deeper into middle age, that idea seems to ring true. Which means, of course, that Pr. Weedon may be among the most qualified candidates out there. ;)
Kurt
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: mariemeyer on November 05, 2012, 10:25:30 AM

Pr. Herman Otten turns 80 on March 3, 2013.

Marie Otten Meyer
So what?  When does Marie Otten Meyer turn 80?

Never ask a woman her age.  (I am a younger sister.)

BTW, yesterday I spoke with Herman's daughter, Ruth. She reports that following a serious fall and broken hip Herman is able to walk again. Health concerns have contributed to his retirement following his next birthday.

Marie Otten Meyer 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: D. Engebretson on November 05, 2012, 10:43:31 AM
President Harrison....He's wise, clever, crazy, compassionate, and humble.  A scholar and yet jovial, passionate about the Gospel AND about meeting human need in tangible ways.  No faith without works for him.

He's a blessing to our Synod and well beyond.

I just had the opportunity to hear Pres. Harrison again at the recent Rural and Small Town Mission Conference this week in Iowa.  I'm always impressed.  He's well grounded in the Word (and Confessions/Luther), yet also very much in touch with real parish needs and genuine pastoral realities.  In talking about Witness, Mercy, Life Together as it relates to rural and small town needs he quickly became passionate about a desire to see a renewal in preaching.  He has also reminded our pastors and lay people about the great need to return to regular visitation.  Back to the basics, the essentials.  I appreciate that.  No gimmicks.  He knows what is ultimately important: our proclamation of the Gospel and the community of believers.  And as Chap. Weedon notes, he is very passionate about meeting human needs.  He has a solid history of doing this, going back to his days at Zion in Ft. Wayne when they worked for renewal of the inner city, and then stretching through the 9 or so years at the LCMS World Relief and Human Care.  He is a rare combination of impeccable and solid scholarship and genuine pastoral compassion.

Bart Day was supposed to be with you, Don, but he was with me.  In fact we were eating at the Parkside Restaurant in Corona Queens and he left to speak via phone to the assembled conference on Friday nite.  And off we went the next day to Staten Island.  So we were happy in NYC that he was with us, even though he was supposed to be with you. 

Dave Benke

Bart Day did end up calling and talking to the conference at the banquet on Friday night and filling the assembly in on what is happening on the east coast. A bit hard to make it all out, as he was talking on a cell phone and it was patch through the resort's PA system, but we did the best we could. Lee Hagan (interim dir of RSTM) was sweating out whether Harrison would also have to miss as well, but he made it.  We all understood that Bart had to be where he was and remembered all of you in our collective prayers that night!
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 21, 2013, 03:14:50 PM
Just a reminder that congregation ballots to nominate candidates for president are due by February 20.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: R. T. Fouts on January 22, 2013, 07:37:08 AM
Sort of surprised Gerald Kieschnick isn't on the list.  I have heard many intended to nominate him again.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 23, 2013, 08:26:41 AM
Sort of surprised Gerald Kieschnick isn't on the list.  I have heard many intended to nominate him again.

I considered adding him and would have had anyone suggested it early in the poll.

You might notice that the poll also does not contain Dr. David Maier which DayStar "nominated".  Their e-mail (http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4690.msg279543#msg279543) suggesting Dr. Maier did not appear until almost a month after I started this poll.

We'll know who was nominated in a couple of months. I believe that only three names are required this time; I don't remember whether up to five may appear on the ballot if they satisfy some condition, but I do remember that the bylaw was changed to require only at least three versus the previous five.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: LutherMan on January 23, 2013, 08:57:30 AM
Sort of surprised Gerald Kieschnick isn't on the list.  I have heard many intended to nominate him again.
Does he currently have a call?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: R. T. Fouts on January 23, 2013, 09:40:42 AM
Sort of surprised Gerald Kieschnick isn't on the list.  I have heard many intended to nominate him again.
Does he currently have a call?

Yes.  He is called through Concordia Unviersity Texas.  I believe his official title is Presidential Ambassador for Missions. 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 23, 2013, 10:22:51 AM
And ....(drum roll).........the three nominees will be.............(drum roll)..............

Matthew Harrison (Incumbent)
Herbert Mueller (Each congregation can nominate 2 and most who nominate MH will also nominate the current 1st VP)
David Maier (Far fewer nominations but the candidate of Daystar)
If David Maier declines, then Gerald Kieschnick.

And the winner will be..........(drum roll).....Matthew Harrison with 65-70% of the vote.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: R. T. Fouts on January 23, 2013, 10:28:12 AM
I imagine you could be correct.  That said -- I think Kieschnick will probably get more nominations than Maier.   

I'm not so sure how the votes will go, though, considering that we really have no "history" of past elections to go by as the process has changed and there will be many more votes on the table.   It will be interesting to see how the new process for electing president, which is probably a more accurate reflection of where Synod is at across the board, shifts considering the narrow margin with which the president has been elected over the last several cycles. 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on January 23, 2013, 01:16:57 PM
I'm in the relatively rare position of pretty much agreeing with Chaplain Gard, as to the nominees and as to the result. 

Further, I think
a) the volume level church-politically is way, way down.  This is a good thing
b) the volume level of "die so genannte" moderate wing is set just barely above zero.  The sound of politics in the Missouri Synod is basically the sound of one hand clapping.
c) the result of the one hand clapping in terms of the overall denominational elections will begin to be felt in the fall of 2013 and through to the 2016 convention in terms of action and energy.
d) the force of the Koinonia Project will be the premier force for dialog rather than convention resolution dictates in the denomination for at least the next two conventions
c) I kind of disagree with the Chaplain on the percentage result.  My Karnak the Magnificent forecast is between 75-80% for President Harrison. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 23, 2013, 01:39:10 PM
c) the result of the one hand clapping in terms of the overall denominational elections will begin to be felt in the fall of 2013 and through to the 2016 convention in terms of action and energy.
d) the force of the Koinonia Project will be the premier force for dialog rather than convention resolution dictates in the denomination for at least the next two conventions
c) I kind of disagree with the Chaplain on the percentage result.  My Karnak the Magnificent forecast is between 75-80% for President Harrison. 

Wow.  I hope this insight is true. I see all three of these as positive trends.  Do you believe those of the "die so genannte" moderate wing will agree or do you believe they will feel ignored as the Synod progresses in a mode of "one hand clapping"?

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: R. T. Fouts on January 23, 2013, 01:42:15 PM
Do you really think things in Synod have shifted so far in but a few years that we would be carried from a stanstill with but a few percentage points determining our differences to such a majoirity?   Why is it that the vast number of firings that have went on in the realm of world missions is less publicized than the firing of one radio show host was a few years back? 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Weedon on January 23, 2013, 02:02:11 PM
Pastor Fouts,

What do you mean by the vast number of firings in the realm of world missions? A new person was called to be Executive Director of International Mission, but that position had not been filled since the restructuring so no one was fired to fill it. There had been two interim co-directors serving. One of them was given accountability for the entire arm of Synod's mercy work. The other has recently taken a call to serve up at Concordia Wisconsin. The further restructuring inside the OIM resulted in two people having their positions eliminated, I think. Part and parcel of the down-sizing of Synod because of the convention mandated restructuring has entailed the loss of positions in most every department. I mean, the COW used to have an Executive Director, an Associate Director, a full time admin and a commission of seven members. Now its work is given under National Mission to me and one part-time admin. I'm sure not seeing a "vast number of firings" in International Mission, though.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 23, 2013, 02:19:53 PM
Pastor Fouts,

What do you mean by the vast number of firings in the realm of world missions? A new person was called to be Executive Director of International Mission, but that position had not been filled since the restructuring so no one was fired to fill it. There had been two interim co-directors serving. One of them was given accountability for the entire arm of Synod's mercy work. The other has recently taken a call to serve up at Concordia Wisconsin. The further restructuring inside the OIM resulted in two people having their positions eliminated, I think. Part and parcel of the down-sizing of Synod because of the convention mandated restructuring has entailed the loss of positions in most every department. I mean, the COW used to have an Executive Director, an Associate Director, a full time admin and a commission of seven members. Now its work is given under National Mission to me and one part-time admin. I'm sure not seeing a "vast number of firings" in International Mission, though.

As I recall, at the end of 2010 there were approximately 12 people let go from WM.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: mariemeyer on January 23, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
Pastor Fouts,

What do you mean by the vast number of firings in the realm of world missions? A new person was called to be Executive Director of International Mission, but that position had not been filled since the restructuring so no one was fired to fill it. There had been two interim co-directors serving. One of them was given accountability for the entire arm of Synod's mercy work. The other has recently taken a call to serve up at Concordia Wisconsin. The further restructuring inside the OIM resulted in two people having their positions eliminated, I think. Part and parcel of the down-sizing of Synod because of the convention mandated restructuring has entailed the loss of positions in most every department. I mean, the COW used to have an Executive Director, an Associate Director, a full time admin and a commission of seven members. Now its work is given under National Mission to me and one part-time admin. I'm sure not seeing a "vast number of firings" in International Mission, though.

There are many ways to approach changes at the International Center since the last convention.  Restructuring has contributed to some of the changes in International Mission.  A decrease in staff was inevitable. True, there was a loss of positions in every department.  However, one change that is cause for concern is that for the first time in many years veteran missionaries, men who for many years served on the mission field in various parts of the world, are not part of the leadership team.  The International Mission Department experienced a greater loss in terms of persons with experience. 

Marie Meyer
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 23, 2013, 02:30:50 PM
Pastor Fouts,

What do you mean by the vast number of firings in the realm of world missions? A new person was called to be Executive Director of International Mission, but that position had not been filled since the restructuring so no one was fired to fill it. There had been two interim co-directors serving. One of them was given accountability for the entire arm of Synod's mercy work. The other has recently taken a call to serve up at Concordia Wisconsin. The further restructuring inside the OIM resulted in two people having their positions eliminated, I think. Part and parcel of the down-sizing of Synod because of the convention mandated restructuring has entailed the loss of positions in most every department. I mean, the COW used to have an Executive Director, an Associate Director, a full time admin and a commission of seven members. Now its work is given under National Mission to me and one part-time admin. I'm sure not seeing a "vast number of firings" in International Mission, though.

As I recall, at the end of 2010 there were approximately 12 people let go from WM.

Considering the Blue Ribbon restructuring, I am still not certain that 12 is vast.  Even if it is, I am uncertain that it was avoidable.

Didn't Pr. Butler say that perhaps the most strange (and likely) outcome of the 2010 convention would be that Rev. Harrison would be elected and yet saddled with overseeing Blue Ribbon restructuring he personally was uncertain about?

On the other hand, if additional changes in how missionaries are called and sent have been made so that significant numbers of them have been called back -- I remember some calling back of missionaries was happening and blamed on President Kieschnick even before President Harrison was elected -- then that is a quite different issue.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Weedon on January 23, 2013, 02:47:16 PM
Scott,

Thanks for the info. That happened before I came on so it wasn't on my radar screen. My experience, though, is that there is significant "belt tightening" across the IC to focus the effort on Synod's mission priorities with maximal bang for the buck. Sadly RIF has been part of that.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 23, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
However, one change that is cause for concern is that for the first time in many years veteran missionaries, men who for many years served on the mission field in various parts of the world, are not part of the leadership team.  The International Mission Department experienced a greater loss in terms of persons with experience. 

Marie Meyer

I'm not sure that is true. The man who heads missions (I cannot remember the title or the name of the person) served as a missionary of the LC-MS for well over 20 years. He was a chaplain in the U.S. Army.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 23, 2013, 02:56:24 PM
Scott,

Thanks for the info. That happened before I came on so it wasn't on my radar screen. My experience, though, is that there is significant "belt tightening" across the IC to focus the effort on Synod's mission priorities with maximal bang for the buck. Sadly RIF has been part of that.

As I recall, no other department had comparable reductions.  I can no longer find the exact data, though I remember it was made known at the time.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 23, 2013, 03:11:31 PM
Scott,

Thanks for the info. That happened before I came on so it wasn't on my radar screen. My experience, though, is that there is significant "belt tightening" across the IC to focus the effort on Synod's mission priorities with maximal bang for the buck. Sadly RIF has been part of that.

As I recall, no other department had comparable reductions.  I can no longer find the exact data, though I remember it was made known at the time.

And as I recall, mission also underwent some of the most dramatic restructuring going from LCMS World Mission to Departments of National and International Mission.

You imply that the disparity between departmental reductions was avoidable.  I tend to disagree.  You, of course, are closer to mission administration.  Do you believe it was avoidable given the Blue Ribbon mandates?

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: mariemeyer on January 23, 2013, 04:12:33 PM
However, one change that is cause for concern is that for the first time in many years veteran missionaries, men who for many years served on the mission field in various parts of the world, are not part of the leadership team.  The International Mission Department experienced a greater loss in terms of persons with experience. 

Marie Meyer

I'm not sure that is true. The man who heads missions (I cannot remember the title or the name of the person) served as a missionary of the LC-MS for well over 20 years. He was a chaplain in the U.S. Army.

Chaplain Gard:

This is not to discredit chaplains, my grandfather was a chaplain in WWI, but to the best of my knowledge LCMS chaplains were not part of the synod's  Mission Board or listed among called full time missionaries serving in various countries outside the USA. These missionaries were not associated with the US military.  It is my understanding that LCMS missionaries under the Board for Foreign Missions often avoided being associated with the USA military.   

The experience of a military chaplain and a full time called missionary in Nigeria or Guatemala would be quite different.  So also was the experience of  my husband who served for 7 years under the Mission Board of the Southeastern District.  All were/are missionaries, but the experiences quite different.

Marie
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 23, 2013, 04:19:23 PM
However, one change that is cause for concern is that for the first time in many years veteran missionaries, men who for many years served on the mission field in various parts of the world, are not part of the leadership team.  The International Mission Department experienced a greater loss in terms of persons with experience. 

Marie Meyer

I'm not sure that is true. The man who heads missions (I cannot remember the title or the name of the person) served as a missionary of the LC-MS for well over 20 years. He was a chaplain in the U.S. Army.

Chaplain Gard:

This is not to discredit chaplains, my grandfather was a chaplain in WWI, but to the best of my knowledge LCMS chaplains were not part of the synod's  Mission Board or listed among called full time missionaries serving in various countries outside the USA. These missionaries were not associated with the US military.  It is my understanding that LCMS missionaries under the Board for Foreign Missions often avoided being associated with the USA military.   

The experience of a military chaplain and a full time called missionary in Nigeria or Guatemala would be quite different.  So also was the experience of  my husband who served for 7 years under the Mission Board of the Southeastern District.  All were/are missionaries, but the experiences quite different.

Marie

This is a point on which many people are confused. Every active duty chaplain is a called missionary of the Synod and serves under the old Board for Mission Service (I'm not sure what is called under restructuring). Men like Pastor Hannah, a career Army chaplain with a long and distinguieshed record of service, are in every way missionaries - both in divine call and function. That they serve in the military institution does not diminish that status - it is simply different than other missionary positions. In fact, there are more missionaries to the armed forces than to any other mission field.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on January 23, 2013, 05:37:10 PM
In the September 2012 edition of the Lutheran
Witness, the following statistic was listed:

LCMS Career Missionaries.......98

It seems that we usually were closer to 130
in our recent past.  Someone else may have
access to these numbers.

Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: mariemeyer on January 23, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
However, one change that is cause for concern is that for the first time in many years veteran missionaries, men who for many years served on the mission field in various parts of the world, are not part of the leadership team.  The International Mission Department experienced a greater loss in terms of persons with experience. 

Marie Meyer

I'm not sure that is true. The man who heads missions (I cannot remember the title or the name of the person) served as a missionary of the LC-MS for well over 20 years. He was a chaplain in the U.S. Army.

Chaplain Gard:

This is not to discredit chaplains, my grandfather was a chaplain in WWI, but to the best of my knowledge LCMS chaplains were not part of the synod's  Mission Board or listed among called full time missionaries serving in various countries outside the USA. These missionaries were not associated with the US military.  It is my understanding that LCMS missionaries under the Board for Foreign Missions often avoided being associated with the USA military.   

The experience of a military chaplain and a full time called missionary in Nigeria or Guatemala would be quite different.  So also was the experience of  my husband who served for 7 years under the Mission Board of the Southeastern District.  All were/are missionaries, but the experiences quite different.

Marie

This is a point on which many people are confused. Every active duty chaplain is a called missionary of the Synod and serves under the old Board for Mission Service (I'm not sure what is called under restructuring). Men like Pastor Hannah, a career Army chaplain with a long and distinguieshed record of service, are in every way missionaries - both in divine call and function. That they serve in the military institution does not diminish that status - it is simply different than other missionary positions. In fact, there are more missionaries to the armed forces than to any other mission field.

Checked the Annual and see where there is confusion.  Listed under International Ministries are the Veterans Affairs Chaplains at VA Hospitals in the States. I would not dispute that they serve on a mision filed.  Also named are The Military Chaplains, including Active Duty, Reserve and Civil Air Patrol chaplains. They also are missionaries serving on a mission field. The VA chaplains together with active and reserve chaplains out number missionaries serving in Africa, East Asia, Eurasia, Latin America, and South Asia.   It is the latter whose representation seems to have been reduced in the new Office of International Mission. The different nature of where they serve, the fact that they are are on the field with families, that they must become fluent in one or more new languages and be immersed in a new culture does in someway set them apart from men like my husband who called as "missionaries at large" here in the states.   

Memory tells me there was a time that all full time missionaries serving in countries outside the USA were, like the chaplains, listed by name in the Annual.  They may still be, but I could not find any such listing.

 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 23, 2013, 05:50:09 PM
The number of military and VA chaplains is not determined by the budget of the Synod - we are the best deal the Synod has in missionaries because we are not paid by the Synod. Our costs are paid by the Kingdom of the Left.

Unfortunately, the number of missionaries paid by Synod is determined by the Synod's budget. There is nothing I would like more than for us to get back to funding the very things that the Synod was formed to do - formation of pastors and other workers, missions and publishing (CPH is self-funding). In military terms, these are the mission essential tasks of the Synod. Everything else is a "nice to have" but do not rise to the level of essential.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: LutherMan on January 23, 2013, 05:55:37 PM
I imagine you could be correct.  That said -- I think Kieschnick will probably get more nominations than Maier.   
Isn't he close to seventy by now?  Would he really want to step back into the rigors of such a role again?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on January 23, 2013, 09:55:56 PM
I'm in the relatively rare position of pretty much agreeing with Chaplain Gard, as to the nominees and as to the result. 

Further, I think
a) the volume level church-politically is way, way down.  This is a good thing
b) the volume level of "die so genannte" moderate wing is set just barely above zero.  The sound of politics in the Missouri Synod is basically the sound of one hand clapping.
c) the result of the one hand clapping in terms of the overall denominational elections will begin to be felt in the fall of 2013 and through to the 2016 convention in terms of action and energy.
d) the force of the Koinonia Project will be the premier force for dialog rather than convention resolution dictates in the denomination for at least the next two conventions
c) I kind of disagree with the Chaplain on the percentage result.  My Karnak the Magnificent forecast is between 75-80% for President Harrison. 

Dave Benke

Thanks for this excellent analysis, Dave.  You always put it in a way I can understand.

I will say, however, with regard to "volume" in the church-political amplification zone, that low volume can mean many and varied things.  If the volume is down, there are people who are
a) pensively waiting for a shoe to drop
b) keeping their heads down and just doing their work locally - this I believe is a good thing
c) scheming behind the scenes
d) figuring out how to deal with the call for dialog when they've either got other things to do and don't really care, or really don't care for any more dialog and just want to fling that other shoe down on the carpet.

I hope this doesn't mess up your analysis, which is as always crisp and useful to me.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 23, 2013, 10:10:42 PM
That they serve in the military institution does not diminish that status - it is simply different than other missionary positions. In fact, there are more missionaries to the armed forces than to any other mission field.

Ministry to American men and women in the Armed Forces is certainly a mission field.  It is also quite different from other sorts of mission work among other cultures on the soil of those cultures where you are called to serve to strengthen the work of the individuals there according to culturally-appropriate forms.  Skills developed in one area do not necessarily translate well into another.  Further, chaplains, being used to functioning under orders and within strong hierarchies, are not necessarily a good fit for the more fluid and less authority-based environments of civilian mission work, just as civilian missionaries would not a good military chaplain in command of soldiers make.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on January 23, 2013, 10:19:03 PM
In the 9:55 post tonight, this was the first time
that I eavesdropped on Bishop Benke talking
to himself.  This New Yorker has got something
going when he can pull that off.  Try decaf and
you will not be the only one in the room.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: J.L. Precup on January 23, 2013, 11:17:35 PM
That they serve in the military institution does not diminish that status - it is simply different than other missionary positions. In fact, there are more missionaries to the armed forces than to any other mission field.

Ministry to American men and women in the Armed Forces is certainly a mission field.  It is also quite different from other sorts of mission work among other cultures on the soil of those cultures where you are called to serve to strengthen the work of the individuals there according to culturally-appropriate forms.  Skills developed in one area do not necessarily translate well into another.  Further, chaplains, being used to functioning under orders and within strong hierarchies, are not necessarily a good fit for the more fluid and less authority-based environments of civilian mission work, just as civilian missionaries would not a good military chaplain in command of soldiers make.

Agreed, Scott.  Having served as both a missionary and a military chaplain, I can attest that they are very different.  As a military chaplain stationed overseas for almost six years in the Philippines, Spain, and Korea, it was actually living and being in a mission field of a little slice of America surrounded by fences in a foreign land.  Was it lonely sometimes?  Yes, but there were like speaking and thinking people there with lots of resources.  As a missionary in Mexico for six year, it was entirely different.  It was lonely sometimes, but there were people speaking a different language and sometimes thinking differently with precious few resources.

Each is a special ministry in a special mission field, but quite separate.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on January 23, 2013, 11:25:01 PM
Scott,

Thanks for the info. That happened before I came on so it wasn't on my radar screen. My experience, though, is that there is significant "belt tightening" across the IC to focus the effort on Synod's mission priorities with maximal bang for the buck. Sadly RIF has been part of that.

As I recall, no other department had comparable reductions.  I can no longer find the exact data, though I remember it was made known at the time.

And as I recall, mission also underwent some of the most dramatic restructuring going from LCMS World Mission to Departments of National and International Mission.

You imply that the disparity between departmental reductions was avoidable.  I tend to disagree.  You, of course, are closer to mission administration.  Do you believe it was avoidable given the Blue Ribbon mandates?

Mike

Let's put it all into proper perspective financially.  Before the restructuring, in FY10/11 under Program Boards, the Missions Board had a budget of over $32 million (including Fan into Flame) compared to these other board's budgets:

Pastoral Education - $3.4 million
University Education - $5.4 million
District and Congregational Services - $3.1 million
Youth Gathering - $6.9 million
Communications - $2.1 million
Human Care - $7.7 million
National Housing program - $1.6 million
Black Ministry - $.7 million

Total program boards - $63 million

Considering the Mission Board's budget is nearly 50% of the total program boards' budget, it's pretty clear why the RIF would hit their area the hardest.  I believe some of their positions were even integrated into the new Office of National Mission so as to minimize the number of positions cut.

http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1569
(Page 6)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 24, 2013, 08:09:50 AM
Scott,

Thanks for the info. That happened before I came on so it wasn't on my radar screen. My experience, though, is that there is significant "belt tightening" across the IC to focus the effort on Synod's mission priorities with maximal bang for the buck. Sadly RIF has been part of that.

As I recall, no other department had comparable reductions.  I can no longer find the exact data, though I remember it was made known at the time.

And as I recall, mission also underwent some of the most dramatic restructuring going from LCMS World Mission to Departments of National and International Mission.

You imply that the disparity between departmental reductions was avoidable.  I tend to disagree.  You, of course, are closer to mission administration.  Do you believe it was avoidable given the Blue Ribbon mandates?

Mike

Let's put it all into proper perspective financially.  Before the restructuring, in FY10/11 under Program Boards, the Missions Board had a budget of over $32 million (including Fan into Flame) compared to these other board's budgets:

Pastoral Education - $3.4 million
University Education - $5.4 million
District and Congregational Services - $3.1 million
Youth Gathering - $6.9 million
Communications - $2.1 million
Human Care - $7.7 million
National Housing program - $1.6 million
Black Ministry - $.7 million

Total program boards - $63 million

Considering the Mission Board's budget is nearly 50% of the total program boards' budget, it's pretty clear why the RIF would hit their area the hardest.  I believe some of their positions were even integrated into the new Office of National Mission so as to minimize the number of positions cut.

http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1569
(Page 6)

Thanks for the analysis.  I'll chew over these numbers.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: mariemeyer on January 24, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
Scott,

Thanks for the info. That happened before I came on so it wasn't on my radar screen. My experience, though, is that there is significant "belt tightening" across the IC to focus the effort on Synod's mission priorities with maximal bang for the buck. Sadly RIF has been part of that.

As I recall, no other department had comparable reductions.  I can no longer find the exact data, though I remember it was made known at the time.

And as I recall, mission also underwent some of the most dramatic restructuring going from LCMS World Mission to Departments of National and International Mission.

You imply that the disparity between departmental reductions was avoidable.  I tend to disagree.  You, of course, are closer to mission administration.  Do you believe it was avoidable given the Blue Ribbon mandates?

Mike

Let's put it all into proper perspective financially.  Before the restructuring, in FY10/11 under Program Boards, the Missions Board had a budget of over $32 million (including Fan into Flame) compared to these other board's budgets:

Pastoral Education - $3.4 million
University Education - $5.4 million
District and Congregational Services - $3.1 million
Youth Gathering - $6.9 million
Communications - $2.1 million
Human Care - $7.7 million
National Housing program - $1.6 million
Black Ministry - $.7 million

Total program boards - $63 million

Considering the Mission Board's budget is nearly 50% of the total program boards' budget, it's pretty clear why the RIF would hit their area the hardest.  I believe some of their positions were even integrated into the new Office of National Mission so as to minimize the number of positions cut.

http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1569
(Page 6)

Kim:

In regard to money:  Consistent with the LCMS history of foreign missions, the fact that support of a world wide mission effort involved a high percentage of funding was unavoidable.  When compared with the mission efforts of local congregations within each of the Districts and District support of "missionaries at large" such as my husband was, the number seems quite reasonable.

Also, I suspect that what the government paid for the many LCMS VA chaplains, active and part time military chaplains and Civil Air Patrol  chaplains (all missionaries in their own right) exceeded the LCMS budget for full time foreign missionaries.

Which leaves us with the concern that reorganization seems to have resulted in the moving on of some of our more experienced career foreign missionaries.   
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 24, 2013, 01:50:13 PM
Regarding the appointment of a retired Army chaplain to head Missions, I will of course grant that his experience is not the same as a missionary to Ghana or, for that matter, a missionary to Podunk, NE. But the experience of a former missionary to Ghana or Pobunk, NE does not encompass institutional missionary work either. And the guy from Ghana does not have experience in Podunk, NE nor does the Podunk guy understand Ghana. An experienced missionary from any of those arenas (military, international, national) who can administer a complex program is as well qualified as one from another area of mission work. So I think the current appointment is excellent and represents the missionary force quite well and is as solid as a person who spent 25 years in foreign or home missions.

As far as the appointment of individuals to administrative posts in the Synod, President Harrison did not ask for the restructuring plan that the convention passed. As a matter of fact, he opposed it but President Kieschnick's appointed Blue Ribbon Task Force won the day and got much of their agenda passed by the 2010 convention. It was mandated by the convention and, upon his election, it has fallen on MH to implement it. No matter who was elected president, jobs were going to be cut. As positions are moved and filled, it is the perogative of every president to appoint those that he believes to be best qualified. Every president has done so - including Jerry Kieschnick. That includes not only paid positions as they open up but also appointments to various non-paid roles. JK put his people in. MH put his people in. Eventually there will be another president and he will put his people in.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 24, 2013, 02:11:54 PM
Regarding the appointment of a retired Army chaplain to head Missions, I will of course grant that his experience is not the same as a missionary to Ghana or, for that matter, a missionary to Podunk, NE. But the experience of a former missionary to Ghana or Pobunk, NE does not encompass institutional missionary work either. And the guy from Ghana does not have experience in Podunk, NE nor does the Podunk guy understand Ghana. An experienced missionary from any of those arenas (military, international, national) who can administer a complex program is as well qualified as one from another area of mission work. So I think the current appointment is excellent and represents the missionary force quite well and is as solid as a person who spent 25 years in foreign or home missions.

Would you consider a civilian (no military experience whatsoever) a good candidate to run the chaplain programs?  In the military, is this even possible?

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, LCMS-WM has very little to no control over the military's chaplaincy program, right?  I.e., LCMS-WM may call chaplains but that's about the breadth and depth of their involvement; they don't try to direct the chaplains where to go or assign them specific duties because this program is overseen by the military and not LCMS-WM, correct?
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 24, 2013, 02:30:49 PM
Regarding the appointment of a retired Army chaplain to head Missions, I will of course grant that his experience is not the same as a missionary to Ghana or, for that matter, a missionary to Podunk, NE. But the experience of a former missionary to Ghana or Pobunk, NE does not encompass institutional missionary work either. And the guy from Ghana does not have experience in Podunk, NE nor does the Podunk guy understand Ghana. An experienced missionary from any of those arenas (military, international, national) who can administer a complex program is as well qualified as one from another area of mission work. So I think the current appointment is excellent and represents the missionary force quite well and is as solid as a person who spent 25 years in foreign or home missions.

Would you consider a civilian (no military experience whatsoever) a good candidate to run the chaplain programs?  In the military, is this even possible?

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, LCMS-WM has very little to no control over the military's chaplaincy program, right?  I.e., LCMS-WM may call chaplains but that's about the breadth and depth of their involvement; they don't try to direct the chaplains where to go or assign them specific duties because this program is overseen by the military and not LCMS-WM, correct?

First, no problem with that. Each faith group that sends chaplains has what is called an "Endorsing Agent". That is exercised by the Ministry to the Armed Forces Director in the LCMS. His job is to evaluate and endorse chaplains. Once a chaplain is commissioned, he remains under ecclesiastical endorsement and must meet all the requirements of his faith group in order to keep his endorsement. If the LCMS MAF pulled my endorsement (which is separate from a call document - it is a military document, not a churchly one) then I am out of the Navy. The LCMS-WM is very much involved with our chaplains from the begiining of their missionary work to the end.

As far as where the chaplain serves, that is a decision of the military institution. Our MAF agrees to allow the military to send our chaplains where they are needed. We send men to the Navy, Army, Air Force and VA. The military then specifies their location and duties within that organization.

Military chaplains are NOT independent of LCMS-WM.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on January 24, 2013, 02:38:52 PM
Learn more about the Chief Mission Officer here:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8QWrJDyfQW0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8QWrJDyfQW0

And here:
http://mo.lcms.org/Index.asp?PageID=&Function=News&NewsID=15695&CategoryID=4250

He served in overseas commands and is tasked with BOTH domestic AND international missions oversight in his role (both the ONM and the OIM are under his leadership).  I think his qualifications are impeccable. 

As for lost missions leadership, it was inevitable given the vote at the last convention.  Surely that was foreseen by those who voted for the restructuring, especially in light of the ratio of resources attributed to that area.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 24, 2013, 02:52:29 PM
Would you consider a civilian (no military experience whatsoever) a good candidate to run the chaplain programs?  In the military, is this even possible?

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, LCMS-WM has very little to no control over the military's chaplaincy program, right?  I.e., LCMS-WM may call chaplains but that's about the breadth and depth of their involvement; they don't try to direct the chaplains where to go or assign them specific duties because this program is overseen by the military and not LCMS-WM, correct?

First, no problem with that. Each faith group that sends chaplains has what is called an "Endorsing Agent". That is exercised by the Ministry to the Armed Forces Director in the LCMS. His job is to evaluate and endorse chaplains. Once a chaplain is commissioned, he remains under ecclesiastical endorsement and must meet all the requirements of his faith group in order to keep his endorsement. If the LCMS MAF pulled my endorsement (which is separate from a call document - it is a military document, not a churchly one) then I am out of the Navy. The LCMS-WM is very much involved with our chaplains from the begiining of their missionary work to the end.

As far as where the chaplain serves, that is a decision of the military institution. Our MAF agrees to allow the military to send our chaplains where they are needed. We send men to the Navy, Army, Air Force and VA. The military then specifies their location and duties within that organization.

Military chaplains are NOT independent of LCMS-WM.

For the sake of precision, however, what you're saying is that the responsibility of the LCMS extends to endorsing candidates via a military document that they meet the requirements of the faith group.  I.e., the LCMS testifies that said chaplain properly represents their faith.

However, the LCMS has no direct oversight of the chaplain in terms of their deployment or their day-to-day activities nor does the LCMS-WM work with the chaplains to raise their own funds but rather chaplains are paid by the US military.  Further, their support structure is also part of the military and not LCMS-WM (e.g., when obtaining shots, those shots are not dictated by LCMS-WM nor paid for by them but by the military; when obtaining passports or other documentation necessary for foreign deployments, such documents are obtained by the military and not the LCMS; etc.)

This is quite different than the role LCMS-WM plays in developing strategies for people involved in foreign mission fields, supporting them, developing funds for them, deploying them, etc and etc.

Which is also why I asked my question about whether or not a civilian should or even could be in charge of the military's chaplaincy program.  The way each works is quite different.

Both are incredibly important and valuable fields.  However, the skills developed in one do not necessarily transfer well to the other.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 24, 2013, 02:54:24 PM
Learn more about the Chief Mission Officer here:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8QWrJDyfQW0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8QWrJDyfQW0

And here:
http://mo.lcms.org/Index.asp?PageID=&Function=News&NewsID=15695&CategoryID=4250

He served in overseas commands and is tasked with BOTH domestic AND international missions oversight in his role (both the ONM and the OIM are under his leadership).  I think his qualifications are impeccable. 

As for lost missions leadership, it was inevitable given the vote at the last convention.  Surely that was foreseen by those who voted for the restructuring, especially in light of the ratio of resources attributed to that area.

Best I know, I have never mentioned any particular individual.  Rather, I was speaking in general about people from the chaplaincy program leading WM in concrete oversight or people from WM leading the military's chaplaincy program in concrete oversight.  I don't think the skills transfer well from one to the other, though any given individual may be better or worse at making the jump.

And btw, I have met the new CMO and am aware of his qualifications, but my points were not made in reference to him but rather to the crossover I mention above.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: John_Hannah on January 24, 2013, 03:56:48 PM
Scott makes a valid point. No, it would not be best or even prudent for a civilian to supervise the ministry of a chaplain. It does happen and ultimately our Commander-in-Chief is always a civilian because of the constitution. In the case of the LCMS, it also true that the new head of international missions has little to no experience in international missions. One might think that somewhere up the chain of command or supervision, it would be better to have that experience.


Peace, JOHN
Chaplain (Colonel-Retired), U.S. Army
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 24, 2013, 05:31:00 PM
At that level, I just do not think experience in one particular mission arena is superior to experience in another. More important is: does the individual shares the elected president's vision of what mission should be? Along with that, can he lead? Can he manage complex programs and budgets? Subject matter experts should be up and down the lines of accountability to advise and counsel the executive. That is where people with long experience in other mission fields should be to augment to experience of the guy at the top. I also happen to have great trust in MH's judgment and priorities - those who do not have that trust are going to question the appointments he made.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 24, 2013, 06:57:17 PM
At that level, I just do not think experience in one particular mission arena is superior to experience in another.

FWIW, I'm not saying that one experience is superior to another.  I'm simply saying that they are different, and that the skills learned in one do not necessarily well translate into the other.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 24, 2013, 07:18:55 PM
At that level, I just do not think experience in one particular mission arena is superior to experience in another.

FWIW, I'm not saying that one experience is superior to another.  I'm simply saying that they are different, and that the skills learned in one do not necessarily well translate into the other.

Ideally, the head of missions would have 20 years experience in Bongobongo, 20 in mission development in Podunk, NE and 20 years of military chaplaincy (preferably Navy, of course). Then all the bases are covered. Unfortunately, he also would be close to 90 years old.

So, again:

1. Does the individual shares the elected president's vision of what mission should be?
2. Along with that, can he lead?
3. Can he manage complex programs and budgets?
4. Will there people with experience in other mission fields also on the staff?

Frankly, I have no idea why any pastor would want such a job. Unless he went to seminary with the hope of becoming a Synodocrat.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: scott8 on January 24, 2013, 07:36:58 PM
At that level, I just do not think experience in one particular mission arena is superior to experience in another.

FWIW, I'm not saying that one experience is superior to another.  I'm simply saying that they are different, and that the skills learned in one do not necessarily well translate into the other.

Ideally, the head of missions would have 20 years experience in Bongobongo, 20 in mission development in Podunk, NE and 20 years of military chaplaincy (preferably Navy, of course). Then all the bases are covered. Unfortunately, he also would be close to 90 years old.

Nobody's expecting this.  For one, we have already established that the mission department does very little to oversee chaplains outside of endorsing them as being of their faith tradition.  There is no day-to-day supervision required or any strategizing because that's taken care of by the military, so chaplain experience would not be necessary for the position.  What would be of value is the experience in Word and Sacrament ministry, however.

Also, ministry experience in Podunk, ND, would also be fine, but ministry in Bongobongo would be quite different than Podunk, and so again overseeing overseas missions would be best done by those who understand what it means to transition cultures fully.


So, again:

1. Does the individual shares the elected president's vision of what mission should be?

Why is this a qualification?  Do we shift mission directors at the whim of the president?  Is this to be a fully politicized position?  Shouldn't he rather share the vision of the synod by being certified for ministry by her and within the bounds of her belief and practice rather than merely by agreeing with the views of a person who happens to be the president of the day?  Further, I thought that he was chosen by a board and not directly by the president, though perhaps I'm mistaken.  But why is this particular criterion important?

2. Along with that, can he lead?

Part of leading is understanding your followers and what their experiences are.  So while it's certainly possible for this knowledge to be gained, just because one is a good, say, senior VP of a medical devices company does not necessarily mean that they would be able to be, say, academic dean of a liberal arts college.  What is key, however, is willingness to learn.  If this is present, then leadership is certainly a possibility.

3. Can he manage complex programs and budgets?

Ok.

4. Will there people with experience in other mission fields also on the staff?

As long as they are present and actually have impactful input, then their presence can certainly help train the new leader in the way he should go -- but there will be a considerable learning curve in running an organization that does something you have never experienced directly at a lower level.  Again, the example of rising through the ranks to being a senior VP of a corporation and then transitioning immediately to the role of an academic dean would be jolting and involve a steep learning curve, to say the least.

Oh, I forgot to add: You jerk.  ;D
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 24, 2013, 07:45:30 PM
Oh, I forgot to add: You jerk.  ;D

 :-*
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on January 25, 2013, 08:12:32 AM
At that level, I just do not think experience in one particular mission arena is superior to experience in another.

FWIW, I'm not saying that one experience is superior to another.  I'm simply saying that they are different, and that the skills learned in one do not necessarily well translate into the other.

Ideally, the head of missions would have 20 years experience in Bongobongo, 20 in mission development in Podunk, NE and 20 years of military chaplaincy (preferably Navy, of course). Then all the bases are covered. Unfortunately, he also would be close to 90 years old.

So, again:

1. Does the individual shares the elected president's vision of what mission should be?
2. Along with that, can he lead?
3. Can he manage complex programs and budgets?
4. Will there people with experience in other mission fields also on the staff?

Frankly, I have no idea why any pastor would want such a job. Unless he went to seminary with the hope of becoming a Synodocrat.

The substantive points here are fine.  And in my opinion the substantive points should be evaluated rigorously.  Parishes care about and are connected to the national body in three prime areas - missions, seminary education and crisis/disaster response. 

Are we proclaiming the Gospel, baptizing and developing communities of faith around the altar nationally and globally as a top priority?

Are we preparing workers for the harvest?

Are we present with mercy and compassion in times of disaster and crisis?

Those involved in answering the first question, which is linked in terms of workers to the second question and in terms of opportunity for Gospel presentation to the third question, must be held accountable to the expansion of the capacity of the denomination to develop communities of faith and to renew communities of faith. 

In this post I do not like
Bongobongo as the descriptor for I guess overseas missions
Synodocrat for those who work for the wider church in developing mission energy and capacity
Both are dismissive terms.

Professors do not like to be called ivory tower academics.
Parish pastors do not like to be called round-collar maintenance men.

All of the above are inept descriptors.  The tasks are great, and the leadership needs are great - missionaries are not Bongobongo guys.  Executives mapping and carrying out the mission strategies are not Synodocrats. 

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 25, 2013, 08:35:51 AM
So, again:

1. Does the individual shares the elected president's vision of what mission should be?

Why is this a qualification?  Do we shift mission directors at the whim of the president?  Is this to be a fully politicized position?  Shouldn't he rather share the vision of the synod by being certified for ministry by her and within the bounds of her belief and practice rather than merely by agreeing with the views of a person who happens to be the president of the day?  Further, I thought that he was chosen by a board and not directly by the president, though perhaps I'm mistaken.  But why is this particular criterion important?

Why is it presumed that the elected president's vision of what mission should be is a politicized whim? Yes, sin does affect that vision so some politics are involved.  However, this may simply be a choice in emphasis as President Harrison has more of a mercy and care emphasis whereas other presidents might have more of a catechetical emphasis.  Obviously, both mercy and teaching are important as are any number of other tasks regarding mission work.  But the emphases may differ, and I think it is good if those who work together share the same vision.

As for why it would be important that the individual share the elected president's vision of what mission should be, I remember this from the article which Deaconess Schave linked  [ http://mo.lcms.org/Index.asp?PageID=&Function=News&NewsID=15695&CategoryID=4250 ]:

Quote
Williamson was appointed to the position by LCMS President Rev. Matthew C. Harrison after consultation with the Boards for National and International Mission, as well as unanimous concurrence by the LCMS Board of Directors.

I'm no bylaws maven, but if the synodical president normally appoints the chief mission officer after consultation with the Boards for National and International Mission and the LCMS Board of Directors, then it would seem important that the officer share the President's mission.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 25, 2013, 09:54:14 AM
In this post I do not like
Bongobongo as the descriptor for I guess overseas missions
Synodocrat for those who work for the wider church in developing mission energy and capacity
Both are dismissive terms.

Professors do not like to be called ivory tower academics.
Parish pastors do not like to be called round-collar maintenance men.

All of the above are inept descriptors.  The tasks are great, and the leadership needs are great - missionaries are not Bongobongo guys.  Executives mapping and carrying out the mission strategies are not Synodocrats. 

Dave Benke

Now I can add "inept" to "unhelpful" and "wrong, even dead wrong". The honorifics just keep piling up! :)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on January 25, 2013, 10:10:52 AM
The administration of the Notre Dame University
is inept.  Their linebacker Manti Te'o is twisting
in the wind with a fake girlfriend and Coach
Kelly has no comment.  Their Athletic Director
sheds tears on this situation at a press conference.
Yes, Alabama exposed their ineptness on the
football field and their administration exposed
their ineptness in the court of public opinion.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 25, 2013, 10:18:46 AM
The administration of the Notre Dame University
is inept.  Their linebacker Manti Te'o is twisting
in the wind with a fake girlfriend and Coach
Kelly has no comment.  Their Athletic Director
sheds tears on this situation at a press conference.
Yes, Alabama exposed their ineptness on the
football field and their administration exposed
their ineptness in the court of public opinion.

Pr. Likeness, I am not certain whether or not this belongs in the Football thread, but it certainly seems out of place here.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on January 25, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
The administration of the Notre Dame University
is inept.  Their linebacker Manti Te'o is twisting
in the wind with a fake girlfriend and Coach
Kelly has no comment.  Their Athletic Director
sheds tears on this situation at a press conference.
Yes, Alabama exposed their ineptness on the
football field and their administration exposed
their ineptness in the court of public opinion.

Before the university would confer my degrees, I had to pass an ineptitude test. I received a "high honors" mark.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Likeness on January 25, 2013, 10:22:52 AM
Mike, I was just messing with the Chaplain who
as you know was nominated previously for the
highest office in the LCMS.  Have a good day.
Life is too short to think that the Texas Rangers
will win the World Series.
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on January 25, 2013, 10:34:35 AM
Mike, I was just messing with the Chaplain who
as you know was nominated previously for the
highest office in the LCMS.  Have a good day.
Life is too short to think that the Texas Rangers
will win the World Series.

Duh.  OK.  Sorry, I should have caught that.  :-[

And while my life may be too short for me to ever see the Texas Rangers eventually win the World Series, I am hoping that my daughter might actually see it.

I also entertain myself by thinking that there is a parallel dimension where the Rangers got that third strike in Game 6 and won the 2011 World Series. ;)

OK, back to talking the synodical presidential election and mission priorities.  Personally, I'm just glad that we don't ring up contacts like a Jerry Lewis telethon any more.

Mike
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Johan Bergfest on January 25, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
And while my life may be too short for me to ever see the Texas Rangers eventually win the World Series, I am hoping that my daughter might actually see it.

...or, they play the Cubs and both teams lose.  ;)
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on January 25, 2013, 11:11:32 AM
In this post I do not like
Bongobongo as the descriptor for I guess overseas missions
Synodocrat for those who work for the wider church in developing mission energy and capacity
Both are dismissive terms.

Professors do not like to be called ivory tower academics.
Parish pastors do not like to be called round-collar maintenance men.

All of the above are inept descriptors.  The tasks are great, and the leadership needs are great - missionaries are not Bongobongo guys.  Executives mapping and carrying out the mission strategies are not Synodocrats. 

Dave Benke

Now I can add "inept" to "unhelpful" and "wrong, even dead wrong". The honorifics just keep piling up! :)

Thanks for the admission of ineptness, Honorable Chaplain.   8)

By the way, knowing that there are those who serve our country on the board here, a number of us from the Atlantic District were privileged to be invited to the advancement ceremony for Michael Meese, who retires shortly as the Social Sciences Chair at West Point Military Academy.  His incredibly exemplary service to country (he also serves as the Chair of our country's Joint Task Force on Counter-terrorism and has had many tours while teaching to places like Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan) and family is also augmented by service to Lord and Church.  He has served for years as the president of West Point Lutheran Ministries, Pr. Martin Conkling (LC-MS); and on the Board of Directors of the Atlantic District and Concordia College Bronxville (currently serving). 

Mike was advanced from Colonel to Brigadier General at the ceremony.  Pinning the stars on his shoulders were his wife Ramona and his mom and dad, Ed and Ursula.  Edwin Meese was our country's attorney general during the Reagan era, and just now retires from presidency of the Heritage Foundation in DC. 

At any rate, it is an honor and privilege to serve God and country, and I know you do so with vigor and dedication, Chaplain Gard.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Pastor Ted Crandall on January 26, 2013, 11:42:17 AM
Edwin Meese was our country's attorney general during the Reagan era

And he's still an LCMS Lutheran, too, right? 
Title: Re: Who Should Be Nominated For LCMS Synodical President?
Post by: Dave Benke on January 26, 2013, 01:57:54 PM
Edwin Meese was our country's attorney general during the Reagan era

And he's still an LCMS Lutheran, too, right?

I believe so, although they have moved a couple of times in recent years.  When the children were younger in SoCal they were in an LC-MS parish in the San Diego area.

Dave Benke