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ALPB => Your Turn => Topic started by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 02:16:35 PM

Title: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 02:16:35 PM
Will you be supporting Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day today?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: LutherMan on August 01, 2012, 02:22:11 PM
Already ate there today.  They are across the street from me...
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 01, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
I eat there every chance I get.  I love their
chicken salad sandwich.  I order 2 at a time to
make sure I am never hungry when I leave the
restaurant.

More importantly, Truett Cathy, the founder of
Chick-Fil-A is a devout Christian.  Their official mission
statement says, "We exist  to glorify God by being a
faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us."
Another spiritual priority for Cathy is that all his
restaurants are closed on Sunday so his employees
can attend church worship services and spend time
with their families.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on August 01, 2012, 03:25:15 PM
What do you mean by eating?  Does a milkshake count as "eating"?  I know you (like me) are one of those fundamentalist LCMS types!   ;D

Rah rah Chik-Fil-A!

Jeremy (who does criticize CFA for the lack of onions to put on their deeeelicious sandwiches)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Christopher Miller on August 01, 2012, 03:36:15 PM
No onions? That's a reason to go! (if I had one in MT  :'( )
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Steverem on August 01, 2012, 03:36:53 PM
I celebrated Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Eve.  (Shorter lines, same yummy chicken.)  Today was a nice Italian Beef (wet, with sport peppers).
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Keith Falk on August 01, 2012, 03:42:10 PM
I answered, "yes", but technically I am not eating AT Chick-Fil-A.  A member of the congregation decided to buy Chick-Fil-A for the youth group meeting tonight (as much as I love pizza, it is nice to have something different).  So it isn't my money, and I'm not eating at a Chick-Fil-A, but I have a hunch that there is a reason why the chicken is being donated this Wednesday.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 01, 2012, 04:11:30 PM
Given the responses available, I had to answer "No." There are no Chick-fil-a nearby; and if there were one, it's highly unlikely that I would be eating there today or yesterday or last week or last month. I have never eaten at a Chick-fil-a restaurant. It has nothing to do with what anyone has said recently. I very seldom eat at any fast-food restaurant. As my wife says, "I want real plates and silverware, not plastic or styrofoam."
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on August 01, 2012, 04:15:56 PM
Given the responses available, I had to answer "No." There are no Chick-fil-a nearby; and if there were one, it's highly unlikely that I would be eating there today or yesterday or last week or last month. I have never eaten at a Chick-fil-a restaurant. It has nothing to do with what anyone has said recently. I very seldom eat at any fast-food restaurant. As my wife says, "I want real plates and silverware, not plastic or styrofoam."

Get it to go and then put it on plates at your own home.  And you could save whichever restaurant some money by not taking their utensils since you likely have your own at home too.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 01, 2012, 04:24:05 PM
Given the responses available, I had to answer "No." There are no Chick-fil-a nearby; and if there were one, it's highly unlikely that I would be eating there today or yesterday or last week or last month. I have never eaten at a Chick-fil-a restaurant. It has nothing to do with what anyone has said recently. I very seldom eat at any fast-food restaurant. As my wife says, "I want real plates and silverware, not plastic or styrofoam."

Get it to go and then put it on plates at your own home.  And you could save whichever restaurant some money by not taking their utensils since you likely have your own at home too.


The closest one is 133.93 miles away according to their website. It has been said that the reason for heated seats in SW Arizona is to keep take out food warm in the car. However, getting food to go is another thing and almost never do. When I eat out, I eat out. I don't bring food home. Why mess up our utensils?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 04:31:52 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Loesch link=topic=4568.msg270390#msg270390
Get it to go and then put it on plates at your own home. 

Great idea, Jeremy!  I think I'll break out the good china and light a couple of candles to up the celebration level with my family tonight.   :D  I'm rather excited about a paper (http://www.ila-net.org/Conferences/2012/Program3.asp?ProgramDBID=184) written last semester with a couple of members of my PhD cohort that was selected for presentation at a secular leadership conference in October.  I focused on Chick-fil-A while my other group members focused on Hershey and Tyson Foods.  We have a long history in the U.S. of being able to do business while integrating our faith as well as being able to speak freely as business owners. 

I cannot wait to see their sales results at the end of the month.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 01, 2012, 04:35:01 PM
Pastor Stoffregen has brought new meaning to
CLERGY CUISINE.  He has a wonderful wife who prefers
real plates and silverware at Red Lobster and Olive
Garden.   May all  of us learn to treat our wives
to an elite restaurant and not the fast food  of Wendys
or McDonalds and their plastic and styrofoam.   May
all of us grasp the true romantic experience of
CLERGY CUISINE.

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 01, 2012, 04:39:37 PM
Pastor Stoffregen has brought new meaning to
CLERGY CUISINE.  He has a wonderful wife who prefers
real plates and silverware at Red Lobster and Olive
Garden.   May all  of us learn to treat our wives
to an elite restaurant and not the fast food  of Wendys
or McDonalds and their plastic and styrofoam.   May
all of us grasp the true romantic experience of
CLERGY CUISINE.


While we occasionally eat at Red Lobster and Olive Garden -- they are located in town; we generally go to locally owned places rather than large franchise places. Aaron and Monica are a young couple, early 30's who recently opened a Mexican restaurant a half mile from the church. (She was born in Mexico, he's a local boy.) That's where I eat most often and frequently take my wife. Had lunch there today. I have a lunch date there next Monday with the Episcopal priest. Ate there three times last week. (I've never asked about their views on homosexual relationships.) I get good food and good service at a reasonable price.


Next Tuesday is our 41st wedding anniversary. I'd better take her to an elite restaurant.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: LutherMan on August 01, 2012, 04:51:00 PM
Chick-fil-A in Martinsburg deemed safe after bomb threat
http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/582561/Bomb-threat-called-in-to-Chick-f%E2%80%94.html
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on August 01, 2012, 05:32:03 PM
There is no Chick-Fil-A here, unfortunately. But I am joining the "eat-in" in spirit.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: exegete77 on August 01, 2012, 05:38:48 PM
I had another reason to travel 60 miles this morning, and when I got hungry, I checked and a Chick-fil-A was 0.2 miles from there. So I ate at 11:00 AM. About 15 cars in line, and about 30 people in line. When I left, there were 25+ cars in line and about 50 people in line outside the door, plus 20+ inside.

I have always liked eating at Chick-fil-A whenever one is close.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on August 01, 2012, 06:28:40 PM
There is no Chick-Fil-A here, unfortunately. But I am joining the "eat-in" in spirit.

But don't you have Burger King and Pizza Hut there?  I mean what's more American than frequenting such establishments on a day like today?  Especially on an island that propagates Communism.

Peace,
Scott+

I did eat at the galley tonight - they had fried chicken so I declared it to be Chick-Fil-A and joined the eat-in. ;D
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 01, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
I find this thread started by Buckeye Deaconess absolutely disgusting. This has no place in discussing Lutheran issues. Yes, we can be light-hearted at times, but this is decidedly a political matter.

I've never eaten at a Chick-A-Fila (a very poor orthographic rendition that bespeaks of stupidness) and like it is with Pastor Stoffregen, I would have to drive hundreds of miles to find one and I am not about to get in my car to find one.

Deaconess, why would you even want to bring up this matter. It has nothing to do with Lutheranism. It's extolling a point of view of the CEO who wanted to make it a political matter. Now he is raking in millions of dollars with people lining up around the block for a political chicken sandwich.

Again, I find this thread so totally off the wall.

And nutritionally, it sounds like a place that many of us should not frequent.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: D. Engebretson on August 01, 2012, 09:57:27 PM
I find this thread started by Buckeye Deaconess absolutely disgusting. This has no place in discussing Lutheran issues. Yes, we can be light-hearted at times, but this is decidedly a political matter.

I've never eaten at a Chick-A-Fila (a very poor orthographic rendition that bespeaks of stupidness) and like it is with Pastor Stoffregen, I would have to drive hundreds of miles to find one and I am not about to get in my car to find one.

Deaconess, why would you even want to bring up this matter. It has nothing to do with Lutheranism. It's extolling a point of view of the CEO who wanted to make it a political matter. Now he is raking in millions of dollars with people lining up around the block for a political chicken sandwich.

Again, I find this thread so totally off the wall.

And nutritionally, it sounds like a place that many of us should not frequent.

Disgusting?  That sounds a bit dramatic.  How is it disgusting?  Like so many threads on this board I find a great freedom in reading what I want to and ignoring what I don't want to read.  Likewise with where I eat.  I don't think this thread will upset the general Lutheran nature of this site.  In my brief observation here many threads stray far from their intended theme, and much of that straying often betrays little direct connection with specific Lutheran theology and practice.  Yet the world goes on....
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Tom Eckstein on August 01, 2012, 10:07:28 PM
Alas, there is no Chick-fil-a restaurant in North Dakota!

However, my family and I will be leaving on vacation this Friday and driving to Florida, then to Texas, and then back up to ND.  We will have MANY opportunities to eat at Chick-fil-a restaurants and I look forward to it because 1) I've always LOVED their food and 2) I want to support them after the recent nonsense.

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: MaddogLutheran on August 01, 2012, 10:08:29 PM
Deaconess, why would you even want to bring up this matter. It has nothing to do with Lutheranism. It's extolling a point of view of the CEO who wanted to make it a political matter. Now he is raking in millions of dollars with people lining up around the block for a political chicken sandwich.
I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong (didn't have time research first but I wanted to post right now), but I am under the impression that this (today) Wednesday Chick-fil-A day was organized by third-parties, and not the company.  And motivated in large part in reaction to the comments of office holders in Boston and Chicago expressing hostility to the continuance of the company's business in their jurisdictions because of the recent comments by the CEO, which until 3 or 4 months ago were not different than the public views of the president of the United States.

I don't know if you agree with the position of your synod regarding same-sex marriage, Roger Martim, but the heavy-handedness by certain office holders most certainly could have an impact on a certain segment of Lutheranism in the U.S. if left unchecked.  First they came for the chicken sandwich makers, and I said nothing...

Sterling Spatz
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Scott6 on August 01, 2012, 10:17:45 PM
Deaconess, why would you even want to bring up this matter. It has nothing to do with Lutheranism. It's extolling a point of view of the CEO who wanted to make it a political matter. Now he is raking in millions of dollars with people lining up around the block for a political chicken sandwich.
I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong (didn't have time research first but I wanted to post right now), but I am under the impression that this (today) Wednesday Chick-fil-A day was organized by third-parties, and not the company.  And motivated in large part in reaction to the comments of office holders in Boston and Chicago expressing hostility to the continuance of the company's business in their jurisdictions because of the recent comments by the CEO, which until 3 or 4 months ago were not different that the public views of the president of the United States.

I don't know if you agree with the position of your synod regarding same-sex marriage, Roger Martim, but the heavy-handedness by certain office holders most certainly could have an impact on a certain segment of Lutheranism in the U.S. if left unchecked.  First they came for the chicken sandwich makers, and I said nothing...

Sterling Spatz

Yup.  Which is why "disgusting" strikes me as over-the-top (especially re: what is by all accounts a great chikn sandwich).  I think it is of relevance to Lutherans and other citizens of the U.S. whether or not our government is following its founding documents (notice that I make no mention of "biblical principles" or other such things).  When a government official thinks that he can ban a business because he disagrees with the political or religious views of its founders, as citizens all of our rights are threatened.

It's not a theological issue; but neither do we live in a "pure" theological world.  Rather, we are citizens of two kingdoms, and in this left-hand matter, we have lots of reasons to assert our rights under this particular left-hand constitutional regime.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: MaddogLutheran on August 01, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
Being the frugal Dutchman that I am, I could not deviate tonight from my ocassional habit of taking advantage of my local Burger King's Whopper Wednesday discount.  In my outer suburban Philadelphia neighborhood, the BK happens to be in the same movie theater complex as a Chick-fil-A.  I can't see it from the direction I came from work, but I could tell something was unusual when I got to BK: the drive-thru was backed up, so I went inside and also had to wait.  Turns out BK got the "overflow" of people (probably C-f-A regulars) and so they were busier than usual too, as the only other fast food on the pad site.  But I didn't understand until, waiting for my Whopper, I heard someone mentioned the crowd over at the C-f-A, but he didn't understand why.  That's when my light bulb went on that today was the day.  Driving home, I couldn't believe the crowd over there.  Didn't get a great look, so I couldn't tell whether it was also some pro/anti people, aside from any food patrons.  At any rate, very unusual in my quiet semi-rural area.  This thing apparently had some legs.  Surprising and bit impressive to me.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 01, 2012, 10:26:47 PM
The current president of Chick-Fil-A and son of
its founder was simply exercising his freedom of
speech.  He said that he upholds the traditional
marriage of man and woman rather than same-sex
marriages.

Our present culture is drifting away from the
traditional Christian values.  As Lutheran pastors
and laity we need to give a witness that Marriage
is an institution created by God.  We can not cave-in
to the world and accept homosexual marriages.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 01, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
So, a Chic-A-Fila CEO by his recent comments drives everyone to one of his franchises in support of his anti-gay position (and he is making millions off of it). Sensitive subjects such as this need in depth discussion, not through his chicken sandwiches.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 10:39:35 PM
I find this thread started by Buckeye Deaconess absolutely disgusting. This has no place in discussing Lutheran issues. Yes, we can be light-hearted at times, but this is decidedly a political matter.

I've never eaten at a Chick-A-Fila (a very poor orthographic rendition that bespeaks of stupidness) and like it is with Pastor Stoffregen, I would have to drive hundreds of miles to find one and I am not about to get in my car to find one.

Deaconess, why would you even want to bring up this matter. It has nothing to do with Lutheranism. It's extolling a point of view of the CEO who wanted to make it a political matter. Now he is raking in millions of dollars with people lining up around the block for a political chicken sandwich.

Again, I find this thread so totally off the wall.

And nutritionally, it sounds like a place that many of us should not frequent.

Well, the 37 38 people who responded to the poll disagree, as do I.  This is a newsworthy topic among all of Christiandom today, especially as the HHS mandate goes into effect; both have implications relating to government overstepping its bounds with respect to religious freedom.

I'll stick with what the guys just posited above about your comments being overdramatic.  After all, I could put forth the same complaint about some of your posts (http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=1101.msg37611#msg37611), but that would just be rude.

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 10:41:38 PM
So, a Chic-A-Fila CEO by his recent comments drives everyone to one of his franchises in support of his anti-gay position (and he is making millions off of it). Sensitive subjects such as this need in depth discussion, not through his chicken sandwiches.

Um, the CEO had nothing to do with today, Gov. Huckabee did (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/mike-huckabee-chick-fil-a-appreciation-day_n_1696648.html).  It would help to have all the facts before going off on a political tangent.

His web site is here:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/mike-huckabee-news?ContentRecord_id=3ee26004-f520-4f45-b327-9bd7e37e2cdc
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: MaddogLutheran on August 01, 2012, 10:48:19 PM
So, a Chic-A-Fila CEO by his recent comments drives everyone to one of his franchises in support of his anti-gay position (and he is making millions off of it). Sensitive subjects such as this need in depth discussion, not through his chicken sandwiches.
If you have something concrete to correct my prior offering as to how the "Appreciation Day" came to be, please do so--but assuming I'm not incorrect, why do you keep harping on the company "making millions" off of this.  It was not a controversy of its making.

And why do you call the CEO's position anti-gay? Objecting to this proposition is exactly the point Pr. Charlton has been making (http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=3079.msg270265#msg270265) on the recent "Intolerance among the Tolerant" thread.  By this standard (oppositon to same-sex marriage), is the ELS also anti-gay?

Sterling Spatz
P.S. Thank you deaconess!
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 01, 2012, 10:51:35 PM
So, a Chic-A-Fila CEO by his recent comments drives everyone to one of his franchises in support of his anti-gay position (and he is making millions off of it). Sensitive subjects such as this need in depth discussion, not through his chicken sandwiches.

Wrong!  Mr. Cathy did not make an anti-gay remark.  He said:

Quote
“I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about.”

“We are very much supportive of the family – the biblical definition of the family. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that. We want to do anything we possibly can to strengthen families. We are very much committed to that,” Cathy said.

There is no place in there that says that he hates gays that he will keep gays out of his store that he will not sell a franchise to a gay person that he will prevent gays from adopting children...  Actually divorced people might be more offended.

He is now being subjected to terrible bullying.  The mayors of Chicago, Boston, and San Francisco say clearly he is not welcome to open franchises in their cities.  That's anti-traditionalist.  That's real bullying.  That's real discrimination.  If the ELCA were serious about bullying in their headquarter city they'd send a note to Mayor Emanuel demanding an apology to Mr. Cathy.

As for me I made my way over to the only accessible Chick-fil-a in the Twin Cities.  The place was swamped.  Unbelievable!  Wonderful people there standing up to the bullies and voting with their palates. 

The chicken sandwich was wonderful.  It was a good day.  You can check out the pictures at this blog from the heart of Lutherland and you may even see someone you know!

http://www.timdroogsma.blogspot.com/

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN

 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 10:59:11 PM
This is especially pertinent to me because I've recently studied the integration of faith and work alongside a cohort of 19 others from all denominations (and even no denominations).  You would be surprised at how many corporations have faith-based offerings because of their understanding that it makes a better, more well-rounded employee.  This is in keeping with the doctrine of vocation as Lutherans.  We don't check our faith at the door when we enter the workplace.  Corporations recognize this and are becoming much more open to allowing for spirituality in the workplace, moreso than we have seen in the past.

For more on Truett Cathy, here is a snippet from my group's paper that we'll be presenting in Denver in the fall.  I'm guessing we'll have some lively discussions now thanks to this brew-ha-ha!  ;)

Truett Cathy, Chick-fil-A

Truett Cathy is a visionary with a penchant for entrepreneurism and a commitment to community and young people.  His Christian faith guides his business decisions, and most notably, his decision to close his restaurants on Sunday.  He maintains that giving employees this day off to rest, spend time with family and worship if they desire is part of his company’s recipe for success.  Chick-fil-A has seen 43 consecutive years of positive sales growth as well as the achievement of system-wide sales of $3.5 billion in 2010 (an 11.37% increase over the chain's 2009 performance and a same-store sales increase of 5.62%). Cathy has found a winning recipe not only in his famous chicken sandwich, but also in allowing room for spirituality within the workplace.  After successfully growing a single small restaurant (aptly named the Dwarf Grill because of its small size) into a franchise with over 1,480 restaurants over the course of sixty years, he remains committed to corporate stewardship by giving back to the community that made his success possible (“Chick-fil-A Corporate Web Site,” 2012; “S. Truett Cathy,” 2011).

In 1984, he founded the WinShape Foundation, which stemmed from his interest in helping young people succeed in life through scholarships and other youth-related programs. In addition, through Chick-fil-A’s Leadership Scholarship Program, more than $25 million in scholarships have been awarded to restaurant employees since 1973.  A new venture called the WinShape Homes program has allowed for the creation of eight foster care homes which provide a positive family environment.  Additionally, WinShape Camps, residential, two-week summer camps that reach out to youth and families by enhancing their Christian faith, character and relationships, have been in operation since 1985.  In 2003, WinShape Retreat was opened and offers high-end retreat and conference accommodations for hosting marriage-enrichment retreats, business and church-related conferences. The WinShape Retreat also offers WinShape Camp for girls in the summer. (“Chick-fil-A Corporate Web Site,“ 2012; “S. Truett Cathy,” 2011).

Caldwell, et al (2011) quotes Cathy’s commitment to employees and communities and: “Without profit, we cannot take care of our employees, our families, or contribute to the betterment of our communities. The question is: How do we balance the pursuit of profit and personal character? For me, I find that balance by applying Biblical principles. I see no conflict between Biblical principles and good business practices.”

The results of this commitment are evident in that Chick-fil-A has the lowest turnover rate in the industry (5% vs. over 60%) and is a strong advocate of lifetime employment.  Franchisees seek married workers and hire their family members.  It is required that franchises remain closed on Sunday so that employees can go to church if they so wish. Managers are encouraged to host Bible study groups and market their restaurants through church groups (Fry & Slocum, 2008).  Cathy says of his company, ‘‘You don’t have to be a Christian to work at Chick-fil-A, but we ask you to base your business on Biblical principles, because they work’’ (Fry and Slocum, 2008, p. 90).

Fry and Slocum also note that although federal laws do not prohibit companies from asking personal questions about religion and marital status, most companies don’t out of fear of discrimination claims. The authors state, “Chick-fil-A has been sued at least 12 times since 1998 on charges of employment discrimination and might have faced more lawsuits if its franchisees were not independent contractors and didn’t screen potential hires and operators so carefully—a process that can take up to a year and include dozens of interviews” (p. 90).

As outspoken as Cathy may be on matters of faith, it has not hindered him from holding a respected and favored position within the business sector.  At a U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection hearing in 2002, Cathy quoted Proverbs 22:11:  “A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold” (Smith, 2003, p. 48).  Smith (2003) points to Cathy as an example that success does not come from fame and fortune because “most people come to realize that inner peace and soul-deep satisfaction” instead come from living a life based on integrity and noble character (p. 48). Chick-fil-A is representative of organizations that are open to allowing spirituality in the workplace to foster a culture that promotes integrity and builds character among its stakeholders.

Cathy’s approach to integrating faith and work fits within the ethics (ET) type of Miller’s (2007) Four E’s model.  He has purposefully infused his Biblical values into his business practices.  The ethical framework upon which he built his business is taken from Biblical teachings, and these teachings inform the policies and practices of the company and its franchises.  They also inform the emphasis that Chick-fil-A places on the triple bottom line.  In addition to focusing on solid business performance, the company takes their obligation towards society and the environment seriously.  This is manifested in the various CSR programs they have implemented which promote community and the environment.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 01, 2012, 11:10:11 PM
Very nice Buckeye Deaconness.  It's a much better discussion of it than the work and faith presentation I heard from Rick Steves at Luther Seminary a few years back.  His big thing?  He goes to church when he travels to all of the fabulous places he goes to (and tells you where you can find prostitutes for hire).  The rest of the talk he bashed Americans for being so backward and really laid into President George W. Bush.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 11:11:54 PM
Get it to go and then put it on plates at your own home.  And you could save whichever restaurant some money by not taking their utensils since you likely have your own at home too.

Jeremy

And to lighten things up, I took Jeremy's suggestion and had my chicken sandwich and waffle fries on my fine china and my lemonade in my best crystal by candlelight in the dining room that we seldom use (4 kids, white carpet . . . enough said).  It was wonderful.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 01, 2012, 11:18:59 PM
I know you folks are trying to make light of the whole situation, "What's the big deal?"

But the fact of the matter is that the Chick-A-Fila (jeepers, I have a hard time trying to type that name) CEO brought it up first with his personal views of relationships, God likes this and God doesn't like that. When did he become a spokesman for God?

Again, I don't see that this has anything to do with Lutheranism. I see it as a blatant political position started by Buckeye Deaconess. It is a Blue versus Red issue and I feel that politics should be kept at a minimum on this board. We are here to discuss our Lutheran faith with the many varieties of expressions and we have hearty exchanges.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 11:22:53 PM
Very nice Buckeye Deaconness.  It's a much better discussion of it than the work and faith presentation I heard from Rick Steves at Luther Seminary a few years back.  His big thing?  He goes to church when he travels to all of the fabulous places he goes to (and tells you where you can find prostitutes for hire).  The rest of the talk he bashed Americans for being so backward and really laid into President George W. Bush.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN

Thank you kindly.  You just have to love the intolerance coming from those espousing tolerance!

I had not previously heard of Mr. Steves, but in trying to gain perspective on your post, I found this piece (http://travelasapoliticalact.com/excerpts/europe-unites.html) and found it rather, well, interesting.

"Whether in a German spa, a Finnish sauna, a Croatian beach, or a Turkish hammam (I can't come up with an English example), a fun part of travel can be getting naked with strangers." 

Lord, have mercy!  :)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 01, 2012, 11:34:01 PM
I know you folks are trying to make light of the whole situation, "What's the big deal?"

But the fact of the matter is that the Chick-A-Fila (jeepers, I have a hard time trying to type that name) CEO brought it up first with his personal views of relationships, God likes this and God doesn't like that. When did he become a spokesman for God?

Again, I don't see that this has anything to do with Lutheranism. I see it as a blatant political position started by Buckeye Deaconess. It is a Blue versus Red issue and I feel that politics should be kept at a minimum on this board. We are here to discuss our Lutheran faith with the many varieties of expressions and we have hearty exchanges.

Oh, please.  Don't be ridiculous.  This is taking my corner of Lutheranism and Christianity (and yes, even my corner of gay Facebook friends, yikes!) by storm today.  I'll take your concern seriously when you address how these posts of yours have anything to do with Lutheranism.  The double standard amazes me.

http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4444.msg261037#msg261037
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4444.msg260824#msg260824
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4444.msg260754#msg260754
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4208.msg245165#msg245165
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4031.msg231079#msg231079
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4031.msg230921#msg230921

Who is offering a blatant political position?  It might be best if you simply ignore this thread if it is that bothersome to you.  I personally have enjoyed the comments of others.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 01, 2012, 11:35:27 PM
Ross Douthat has a insightful article on the Chick-fil-A mess.  http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/chick-fil-a-and-social-change/ In it, he gives what I consider a fair description what is taking place:

The cause of gay marriage has indeed advanced because many millions of people have been persuaded of its merits: No cause could move so swiftly from the margins to the mainstream if it didn’t have appealing arguments supporting it and powerful winds at its back. But it has also advanced, and will probably continue to advance, through social pressure, ideological enforcement, and legal restriction. Indeed, the very language of the movement is explicitly designed to exert this kind of pressure: By redefining yesterday’s consensus view of marriage as “bigotry,” and expanding the term “homophobia” to cover support for that older consensus as well as personal discomfort with/animus toward gays, the gay marriage movement isn’t just arguing with its opponents; it’s pathologizing them, raising the personal and professional costs of being associated with traditional views on marriage, and creating the space for exactly the kind of legal sanctions that figures like Thomas Menino and Rahm Emanuel spent last week flirting with.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 01, 2012, 11:39:08 PM
I know you folks are trying to make light of the whole situation, "What's the big deal?"

But the fact of the matter is that the Chick-A-Fila (jeepers, I have a hard time trying to type that name) CEO brought it up first with his personal views of relationships, God likes this and God doesn't like that. When did he become a spokesman for God?

Again, I don't see that this has anything to do with Lutheranism. I see it as a blatant political position started by Buckeye Deaconess. It is a Blue versus Red issue and I feel that politics should be kept at a minimum on this board. We are here to discuss our Lutheran faith with the many varieties of expressions and we have hearty exchanges.

Wrong again!  There may be some lightheartedness in my post but I am very upset at the bullying Mr. Cathy is being subjected to.  The lies that are being said about him as anti-gay are steaming piles.  It has to do with lutheranism, especially the ELCA who passed an anti-bullying resolution at their last CWA.  Then when the hometown mayor bullies the CEO of a fine, fine company who espouses a view that the ELCA says is of good conscience, they don't have the moral fortitude to get up and call Bully Emanuel out. 

Bishop Hanson had no problem wading into other non-Lutheran national issues like the Trayvon Martin case.  Where is he on this one?

And as for your issue on bringing it up first.  Really?  Think about it?  Who brought this whole ridiculous issue up first?  Think hard. 

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: LutherMan on August 01, 2012, 11:45:33 PM

Who is offering a blatant political position?  It might be best if you simply ignore this thread if it is that bothersome to you.  I personally have enjoyed the comments of others.
Ouch...
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 12:19:59 AM

Who is offering a blatant political position?  It might be best if you simply ignore this thread if it is that bothersome to you.  I personally have enjoyed the comments of others.
Ouch...

Was I too harsh?  I believe I've been pretty clear that I'm approaching this from a business perspective and not a political perspective.  Clearly I've struck a nerve.  I'm not bashing politicians like my accuser, I'm simply supporting a privately-held company having the right to run its business as its owners see fit in keeping with the laws of our nation. 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: LutherMan on August 02, 2012, 12:24:41 AM

Who is offering a blatant political position?  It might be best if you simply ignore this thread if it is that bothersome to you.  I personally have enjoyed the comments of others.
Ouch...

Was I too harsh?  I believe I've been pretty clear that I'm approaching this from a business perspective and not a political perspective.  Clearly I've struck a nerve.  I'm not bashing politicians like my accuser, I'm simply supporting a privately-held company having the right to run its business as its owners see fit in keeping with the laws of our nation.
Not at all.  I said ouch at RM's comments that you dredged up...
I applaud your stance.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 03:55:16 AM
Brian Bergs writes:
Bishop Hanson had no problem wading into other non-Lutheran national issues like the Trayvon Martin case.  Where is he on this one?

I comment:
Presiding Bishop Hanson did not "wade" in uninvited. The first response came from the Florida-Bahamas Synod and people close to the situation.
This particular cock fight is every bit as disgusting as the real bloody and idiotic ones held secretly in warehouses and back alleys.
My salt shaker of disgust sprinkles equally over those who make an issue of some billionaire's remark and those who rally to the support of the poor, "bullied" billionaire by clogging their arteries with his product and pretending - can you believe it?! - that by so doing they are protecting the sanctity of marriage.
What's next? Shall we research all corporations and rate them according to the piety of their highest muckety-mucks? Or could we publish a list showing which companies were "Christian," "non-Christian," "evangelical," "Catholic," or "liberal"?
Everyone want to deactivate their computers to protest the social or political views of Bill Gates? Can the pope-is-the-anti-Christ crowd ever eat a Domino's Pizza?
Do you really think that withholding a few bucks from a fast-food chain is gong to have any impact on anything or that lining up for a cheap, greasy meal is a witness to the Gospel? Really?
My disgust gets hotter than the fat in the French fryer because this is exactly the kind of dumb dispute that polarizes social discourse and makes those on all "sides" - especially Christians - look silly.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: George Erdner on August 02, 2012, 06:31:41 AM
I know you folks are trying to make light of the whole situation, "What's the big deal?"

But the fact of the matter is that the Chick-A-Fila (jeepers, I have a hard time trying to type that name) CEO brought it up first with his personal views of relationships, God likes this and God doesn't like that. When did he become a spokesman for God?

Again, I don't see that this has anything to do with Lutheranism. I see it as a blatant political position started by Buckeye Deaconess. It is a Blue versus Red issue and I feel that politics should be kept at a minimum on this board. We are here to discuss our Lutheran faith with the many varieties of expressions and we have hearty exchanges.

I see you had such a hard time typing the name that you couldn't even get it right? A deliberate attempt at mockery, perhaps?
 
As for being a "spokesman for God", since when are we not supposed to bear witness to what God has told us through scripture? God made it clear to us what actions and behaviors He likes and dislikes by giving us the Law. As Lutherans, we understand that both Law and Gospel abide.
 
What good is discussing or having faith if we don't include discussing how our faith manifests itself in our actions? Where are your complaints about how often Hanson sticks his nose into political matters that have nothing specifically to do with Lutheran faith? And Hanson isn't just a Christian layman attempting to let his actions be guided by his faith. Hanson is supposedly speaking on behalf of the largest single group of Lutherans in the nation, even if it is shrinking rapidly under his watch.
 
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 02, 2012, 07:39:04 AM
Brian Bergs writes:
Bishop Hanson had no problem wading into other non-Lutheran national issues like the Trayvon Martin case.  Where is he on this one?

I comment:
Presiding Bishop Hanson did not "wade" in uninvited. The first response came from the Florida-Bahamas Synod and people close to the situation.
This particular cock fight is every bit as disgusting as the real bloody and idiotic ones held secretly in warehouses and back alleys.
My salt shaker of disgust sprinkles equally over those who make an issue of some billionaire's remark and those who rally to the support of the poor, "bullied" billionaire by clogging their arteries with his product and pretending - can you believe it?! - that by so doing they are protecting the sanctity of marriage.
What's next? Shall we research all corporations and rate them according to the piety of their highest muckety-mucks? Or could we publish a list showing which companies were "Christian," "non-Christian," "evangelical," "Catholic," or "liberal"?
Everyone want to deactivate their computers to protest the social or political views of Bill Gates? Can the pope-is-the-anti-Christ crowd ever eat a Domino's Pizza?
Do you really think that withholding a few bucks from a fast-food chain is gong to have any impact on anything or that lining up for a cheap, greasy meal is a witness to the Gospel? Really?
My disgust gets hotter than the fat in the French fryer because this is exactly the kind of dumb dispute that polarizes social discourse and makes those on all "sides" - especially Christians - look silly.

1. You make an excellent criticism of my call to Bishop Hanson.  Perhaps we should hear first from one or all of the bishops of Chicago or New England.  It is happening in the ELCA's carefully chosen headquarter city.  This situation is one where the ELCA could quite painlessly step forward (like the Log Cabin Republicans) and truly show that they mean what they say about both bullying and "bound conscience."
2. Your even handedness with the salt shaker is noted.
3. From my experience the crowd that stands up for Chick-fil-a are less about the sanctity of marriage and more about bullying and freedom of speech.  Many of them are neutral on the marriage issue or even pro same-sex marriage.  This leads me back to my first point, they are actually walking the talk on "bound conscience" where they disagree but will support people who think differently.
4.  We would be in agreement on "what's next."   The attacks on Chick-fil-a are outrageous and those who do them should be called out.  Here is a rich man who really tries to run a values based company but has a traditionalist point of view (that the ELCA says is equally valid) on marriage.  He says it in context of a Christian magazine interview.  He gets wrongly and savagely attacked in the press as hateful and anti-gay.  His company gets threatened by politicians.  The response yesterday was because our blood boiled every bit as much as yours.  We did something about it to show our support for a good man who runs a good company who is being bullied over his Christian beliefs.

And we enjoy a delicious sandwich and waffle fries to boot.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Benke on August 02, 2012, 07:52:33 AM
Article online this morning about gay employees at Chick-fil-A.  Their take, media-highlighted, was that this was the gay-haters' party time.  That highlights to me that there is risk involved in activities in what we Lutherans call God's Realm of the Left.  If the intent is to confront the over-the-top political correctnesses of the secular left prohibiting free speech in support of a moral issue, the result can be the perception in this case of gay-hating or gay-baiting. 

When the Missouri Synod began its efforts in housing decades ago and the Nehemiah Plan ensued, since it was accomplished ecumenically with congregations involved in community organizing, what got lost to the religious/secular right at the edge of the Missouri Synod was that this was a great urban housing effort (that eventually spread across the country).  What was perceived was that it was a crazy leftwing community organizing effort with the chief nut in charge being me.  So those few folks tried to make ecumenical community organizing the issue, rather than the thousands of homes.  They didn't carry the day, because the evidence of the homes where there had been devastation was too strong.

There was no instant media movement then.  Today polarities are the order of the day and they spread like wildfire through the anti-social social media, so the risks are more readily exposed.  I wouldn't think that anyone who posted "Yes" or "Would-if-I could" on this thread is a gay-hater or gay-baiter, and yet the risk of that perception is high.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on August 02, 2012, 08:02:46 AM
What's next? Shall we research all corporations and rate them according to the piety of their highest muckety-mucks? Or could we publish a list showing which companies were "Christian," "non-Christian," "evangelical," "Catholic," or "liberal"?
Everyone want to deactivate their computers to protest the social or political views of Bill Gates? Can the pope-is-the-anti-Christ crowd ever eat a Domino's Pizza?
Do you really think that withholding a few bucks from a fast-food chain is gong to have any impact on anything or that lining up for a cheap, greasy meal is a witness to the Gospel? Really?
My disgust gets hotter than the fat in the French fryer because this is exactly the kind of dumb dispute that polarizes social discourse and makes those on all "sides" - especially Christians - look silly.

3. From my experience the crowd that stands up for Chick-fil-a are less about the sanctity of marriage and more about bullying and freedom of speech.  Many of them are neutral on the marriage issue or even pro same-sex marriage.  This leads me back to my first point, they are actually walking the talk on "bound conscience" where they disagree but will support people who think differently.
4.  We would be in agreement on "what's next."   The attacks on Chick-fil-a are outrageous and those who do them should be called out.  Here is a rich man who really tries to run a values based company but has a traditionalist point of view (that the ELCA says is equally valid) on marriage.  He says it in context of a Christian magazine interview.  He gets wrongly and savagely attacked in the press as hateful and anti-gay.  His company gets threatened by politicians.  The response yesterday was because our blood boiled every bit as much as yours.  We did something about it to show our support for a good man who runs a good company who is being bullied over his Christian beliefs.

Nice response to Pr. Austin.

I was one of those who voted that he was not eating at Chick-fil-A yesterday.  It was simply too busy.

I'm going Friday to support them when apparently some gay protest to clog and harass the restaurants is being planned by some.

As you say, it is in my opinion more about free speech and anti-bullying by politicians than it is about traditional marriage.  In fact, perhaps unlike other Christians, I would be just as outraged by a city mayor blocking JC Penney from placing a store in their city because of JCP's recent marketing to gays.

Mike
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Steven Tibbetts on August 02, 2012, 08:14:25 AM
So, a Chic-A-Fila CEO by his recent comments drives everyone to one of his franchises in support of his anti-gay position (and he is making millions off of it). Sensitive subjects such as this need in depth discussion, not through his chicken sandwiches.

How are his comments "anti-gay?"

Pax, Steven+
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 02, 2012, 08:16:09 AM
By the way other church leaders have stepped in.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/31/chicago-religious-leaders-back-chick-fil/

These religious leaders understand the issue is less about same-sex marriage but about bullying.  They ask the very question that Rev. Austin asks in his most recent post (but with a little different POV).
Quote
"Is the City Council going to set up a 'Council Committee on Un-Chicagoan Activities' and call those of us who are suspect to appear before it?"
the ELCA with its anti-bullying statement sits on the sideline when this happens in their headquarter city.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Eileen Smith on August 02, 2012, 08:22:46 AM
Thank you RogerMartin & Pastor Austin.  When I first saw this thread, early last evening, I was a bit taken back by it.  Maybe I wouldn't go as far as to say disgusting - but I was very put off by the enthusiasm of the responses and I can assure you I would be very upset and very vocal if our youth group had Chick-Fil-A brought in.  Now, before the response comes in on my views on gay marriage - I am against it - I am against all that went on in the 2009 CWA. I think that we are called to faithfulness and the church has strayed from that call.  That being said, this struck me as very anti-gay - about as bullying in its own way as we feel the head of C-F-A was bullied.   As a matter of free speech, I support his right to his views and definitely do not think his franchises could be kept out of any city due to his views.  Yet - I don't think being gay is a matter of choice -  gosh, I think I'll go for same-sex today!  More and more studies are coming out supporting that this is simply the way one is born.  Acting out one's sexual preference is a matter of choice and for those who choose to be celibate, it has to be a very difficult discipline.  And for those who do not choose to be celibate - I can't say that I support it, but God decided (wisely) that he, not I, am judge.  I simply have to love them.  If anyone is deluded into thinking that people flocked to C-F-A to support first amendment rights - please, visit me here out East, I've got a great bridge you might be interested in.  This action was perceived as hateful and hurtful to gays - and it really came across to me that way as well.   So now on Friday we have yet another C-F-A media op.   

BTW - I checked "no."  For health reasons I do not eat fast food; however, I went onto the website and clicked on the menu.   Perhaps what we should be doing is having a Body Appreciation Day - when we don't load our bodies with the fat and salt that goes into this stuff - and definitely don't give it to our kids - recognizing that God gave us our bodies as gifts of which we are stewards. 

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on August 02, 2012, 08:39:30 AM
If anyone is deluded into thinking that people flocked to C-F-A to support first amendment rights - please, visit me here out East, I've got a great bridge you might be interested in.  This action was perceived as hateful and hurtful to gays - and it really came across to me that way as well.   So now on Friday we have yet another C-F-A media op.   

That's certainly best construction.  ::)

I assure you that it was indeed about First Amendment rights -- which do include freedom of religious belief and assembly as well as freedom of speech -- for many including friends of mine who went yesterday. 

The article DCharlton points to corroborates this.  Gay rights have moved beyond tolerance to intolerance of the traditional Christian definition of marriage.

Ross Douthat has a insightful article on the Chick-fil-A mess.  http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/chick-fil-a-and-social-change/ In it, he gives what I consider a fair description what is taking place:

The cause of gay marriage has indeed advanced because many millions of people have been persuaded of its merits: No cause could move so swiftly from the margins to the mainstream if it didn’t have appealing arguments supporting it and powerful winds at its back. But it has also advanced, and will probably continue to advance, through social pressure, ideological enforcement, and legal restriction. Indeed, the very language of the movement is explicitly designed to exert this kind of pressure: By redefining yesterday’s consensus view of marriage as “bigotry,” and expanding the term “homophobia” to cover support for that older consensus as well as personal discomfort with/animus toward gays, the gay marriage movement isn’t just arguing with its opponents; it’s pathologizing them, raising the personal and professional costs of being associated with traditional views on marriage, and creating the space for exactly the kind of legal sanctions that figures like Thomas Menino and Rahm Emanuel spent last week flirting with.

Mike
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Steven Tibbetts on August 02, 2012, 08:44:14 AM
Gay rights have moved beyond tolerance to intolerance of the traditional Christian definition of marriage.


Not simply the "Christian" definition of marriage, but marriage as defined in cultures that have not been influenced by Christianity, and even cultures that have been hostile to the Faith.

spt+
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Lutheranistic on August 02, 2012, 09:26:56 AM
Quote
In fact, perhaps unlike other Christians, I would be just as outraged by a city mayor blocking JC Penney from placing a store in their city because of JCP's recent marketing to gays.

Mike

Thanks, Mike, for bringing up the JCP kerfluffel of a few months back...I was about to post something about the (non?) parallels to the Chick-kerfluffel when I saw your comment. I appreciate your sentiment and agree with you, but I'll bet any number of bags of chicken sandwiches that the same folks standing in line yesterday would not have been in line to buy to bag of dress socks at JCP if the situation had been "a city mayor blocking JC Penney from placing a store in their city because of JCP's recent marketing to gays." Except maybe you and me.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Coach-Rev on August 02, 2012, 09:28:12 AM
Thank you RogerMartin & Pastor Austin.  When I first saw this thread, early last evening, I was a bit taken back by it.  Maybe I wouldn't go as far as to say disgusting - but I was very put off by the enthusiasm of the responses and I can assure you I would be very upset and very vocal if our youth group had Chick-Fil-A brought in.  Now, before the response comes in on my views on gay marriage - I am against it - I am against all that went on in the 2009 CWA. I think that we are called to faithfulness and the church has strayed from that call.  That being said, this struck me as very anti-gay - about as bullying in its own way as we feel the head of C-F-A was bullied.   As a matter of free speech, I support his right to his views and definitely do not think his franchises could be kept out of any city due to his views.  Yet - I don't think being gay is a matter of choice -  gosh, I think I'll go for same-sex today!  More and more studies are coming out supporting that this is simply the way one is born.  Acting out one's sexual preference is a matter of choice and for those who choose to be celibate, it has to be a very difficult discipline.  And for those who do not choose to be celibate - I can't say that I support it, but God decided (wisely) that he, not I, am judge.  I simply have to love them.  If anyone is deluded into thinking that people flocked to C-F-A to support first amendment rights - please, visit me here out East, I've got a great bridge you might be interested in.  This action was perceived as hateful and hurtful to gays - and it really came across to me that way as well.   So now on Friday we have yet another C-F-A media op.   

BTW - I checked "no."  For health reasons I do not eat fast food; however, I went onto the website and clicked on the menu.   Perhaps what we should be doing is having a Body Appreciation Day - when we don't load our bodies with the fat and salt that goes into this stuff - and definitely don't give it to our kids - recognizing that God gave us our bodies as gifts of which we are stewards.

I will simply remind you - as I believe it was Bergs earlier who also did - who started this whole mess?  Think hard.  It wasn't the "anti-gay" "Christian right" "mean-spirited/hateful" supporters of traditional marriage.  It was those revisionists who claim to espouse such tremendous tolerance for all points of view.

And quite frankly, I'm deeply offended by your insistence that anyone who stands up for a man who espoused a traditional view of marriage as "anti-gay."  Your veiled disgust at Rev. Falk and the youth group is equally offensive and - dare I say it? - bully behavior. 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 09:33:05 AM
 Pastor Cottingham cites remarks above as "equally offensive and - dare I say it? - bullish."

I note:
Bullish:
 a   : marked by, tending to cause, or hopeful of rising prices (as in a stock market) <a bullish market> <bullish policies> <bullish investors>    b   : optimistic about something's or someone's prospects <bullish on the company's future>
Source Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.
;) ;D
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 02, 2012, 10:00:49 AM
A spokeswoman for the 93 year old Rev. Billy Graham
said he ate a Chick-Fil-A lunch including a chicken
sandwich and waffle fries at his North Carolina home.

So on Wednesday, August 1, he showed solidarity for
freedom of speech and freedom of religion with his
fellow Americans.  Billy Graham is a man of the people
who loves the United States of America.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Coach-Rev on August 02, 2012, 10:17:39 AM
Pastor Cottingham cites remarks above as "equally offensive and - dare I say it? - bullish."

I note:
Bullish:
 a   : marked by, tending to cause, or hopeful of rising prices (as in a stock market) <a bullish market> <bullish policies> <bullish investors>    b   : optimistic about something's or someone's prospects <bullish on the company's future>
Source Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.
;) ;D
correction duly noted and made.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 10:19:04 AM
Pastor Likeness writes:
So on Wednesday, August 1, he showed solidarity for
freedom of speech and freedom of religion with his
fellow Americans.  Billy Graham is a man of the people
who loves the United States of America.

I muse:
And a man who, at his age, maybe ought to be a little careful about what he eats.
I don't think "freedom of religion" is at stake (could I write "steak"?) in this silliness; but just to show I'm not such a bad egg, maybe I'll go an eat a chickn in support of freedom of speech. But I don't think that's a real issue here either.
I do think they could create a sandwich which would draw journalists such as this humble correspondent. It would include a fil-a of a young hen with a mysterious spicy sauce, and be called "Pullet-surprise".
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Linda on August 02, 2012, 10:25:04 AM
Dave Benke,

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on August 02, 2012, 10:27:28 AM
And a man who, at his age, maybe ought to be a little careful about what he eats.

Uh, why?  At my age I need to be careful about what I eat so that I can make three-score and ten.

Having made 93 I'd think that Rev. Graham is pretty free to eat whatever he pleases.  The Lord has already blessed him with more years than most.

Mike
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 10:28:00 AM
Chick-fil-A has a healthier food offering in their grilled chicken options.  In fact, what do you know?  They are on the leading edge of offering the healthiest kids' meals (http://www.qsrmagazine.com/news/chick-fil-debuts-one-most-healthy-kid-s-meals?microsite=9345) of any fast food franchise.  They continue to show their concern for community.

Apparently some would stifle free speech even on this forum.  Go figure?!
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 10:36:19 AM
Just who is it, deaconess, who would stifle "free speech even on this forum"? Name names.

How nice that they offer "healthy food." But it still seems to me that something important about the culinary and gustatory experience is lost in fast-food "dining."
And that goes for the chickn folks, Wendy's, Roy Rogers, Burger King, McD's, Taco Bell, or any other such outlet.

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Benke on August 02, 2012, 11:14:24 AM
Dave Benke,

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda

No contention taken.  The average bear is just going to do what the rest are doing and buy a chicken sandwich.  The other option would be to separate from the average bears and organize something else that stated why you were doing what you were doing and what it was and wasn't.  But that wouldn't be easy. 

Or you could have a churchly letter thing, even while having your sandwich and eating it too, stating (with others) why you ate that chicken, and that you're not a gay-hater/baiter even though you stand on the side of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 11:21:31 AM
Or one hen and one rooster?  ;D
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on August 02, 2012, 11:42:29 AM
Or one hen and one rooster?  ;D

Exactly! Hen and rooster. The chickens seem to get it. Why can't mankind?

Oh yeah, that sin thing...
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 02, 2012, 11:44:47 AM
Or one hen and one rooster?  ;D

Exactly! Hen and rooster. The chickens seem to get it. Why can't mankind?


I'm pretty sure that the rooster has a whole brood of hens. You sure you want to go there?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on August 02, 2012, 11:51:24 AM
Yet again you miss the mark. I said nothing about "one."

Mind if we start calling you Mr. Irrelevant?  ;)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 02, 2012, 11:53:43 AM
I said nothing about "one." Mind if we start calling you Mr. Irrelevant?  ;)


Neither did you say hens and rooster.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on August 02, 2012, 11:56:23 AM
I said nothing about "one." Mind if we start calling you Mr. Irrelevant?  ;)

Neither did you say hens and rooster.

Indeed. Try to focus, Rev. Stoffregen.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jim_Krauser on August 02, 2012, 01:58:32 PM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?
 
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 01:59:50 PM
"Americans flocked by the thousands to Chick-fil-A restaurants yesterday in support of CEO Dan Cathy’s comments in favor of traditional marriage, sending lines sprawling through restaurants, parking lots, down sidewalks, and around street corners. This morning the company confirmed, without releasing numbers, that it was an “unprecedented” day."

http://www.worldmag.com/webextra/19793
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Coach-Rev on August 02, 2012, 02:45:15 PM
Or one hen and one rooster?  ;D

Exactly! Hen and rooster. The chickens seem to get it. Why can't mankind?


I'm pretty sure that the rooster has a whole brood of hens. You sure you want to go there?

Brian, your incessant comparison about the multiple views of marriage in the Bible suggest that with this statement, you consider humanity no better than a hen or rooster.  ::)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 03:21:58 PM
We are all animals.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 03:28:30 PM
"For the first time in my life, today I visited a Chick-fil-A to show my support for Cathy’s right to free speech, answering the call of former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who had proclaimed today “Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day.” I live in LA so, I was not expecting much in way of support but, I was not just surprised, I was blown away. The Chick-fil-A in Northridge, California, had a line that twisted throughout the parking lot. It was almost 100 degrees but, that didn’t seem to deter anyone. They were peaceful and the demographic was wide ranging. Blacks, whites, teenagers, kids, Latinos and all other categories you could imagine. At this location there were no anti-Chick-fil-A protesters.

So, how was the chicken? Amazing! Now I know why people love this place. The store was run extremely well. Clean, polite and efficient. The staff brought water to those in line, they handed out umbrellas for protection from the sun and they served delicious food quickly. This has been replicated across the nation. This huge one day movement involving millions of supporters made their opinions heard and voted with their money and presence. It has been estimated that the chain will have booked almost $100 million in revenue or more just today."


http://www.forbes.com/sites/derekbroes/2012/08/01/chic-fil-a-day/

I happened to be in LA over the weekend and couldn't believe how long the drive-thru line was at Chick-fil-A.  We opted for In-N-Out that day, which I just learned today actually prints John 3:16 on the bottom of their cups (http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp).  I didn't even see that when we were partaking.  Successful corporations integrating their faith into their business practices . . . imagine that!
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Donald_Kirchner on August 02, 2012, 03:34:02 PM
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/media-launches-scathing-attacks-threats-against-chick-fil-a.html
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Eileen Smith on August 02, 2012, 04:06:08 PM
I will simply remind you - as I believe it was Bergs earlier who also did - who started this whole mess?  Think hard.  It wasn't the "anti-gay" "Christian right" "mean-spirited/hateful" supporters of traditional marriage.  It was those revisionists who claim to espouse such tremendous tolerance for all points of view.

And quite frankly, I'm deeply offended by your insistence that anyone who stands up for a man who espoused a traditional view of marriage as "anti-gay."  Your veiled disgust at Rev. Falk and the youth group is equally offensive and - dare I say it? - bully behavior.

1)  I am aware who started this - and I do recognize it was the supporters of tolerance for gays.  And I'm not considered by anyone who knows me a revisionist - probably quite the opposite.  I spent many years in advertising and television and I know a bit about perception - which often dictates reality.  Do I think some people were out there for  free speech - yeah, some.  But do I think that the gay issue motivated them - yes, I do.  Now if that's poor construction, sorry - but I did listen to interviews of people going in and out of C-A-F and sure sounded like that to me.   

2)  It's not veiled disgust -- frankly I did find the whole thing off-putting -- and it wasn't meant to be bullying.  My word - with some of the stuff written on this site you think that's bullying!!  I take great interest in our youth group and I simply would be offended to have had them take part in yesterday's event - because of the perceived intolerance of the event. 



Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: passerby on August 02, 2012, 04:17:22 PM
Very nice Buckeye Deaconness.  It's a much better discussion of it than the work and faith presentation I heard from Rick Steves at Luther Seminary a few years back.  His big thing?  He goes to church when he travels to all of the fabulous places he goes to (and tells you where you can find prostitutes for hire).  The rest of the talk he bashed Americans for being so backward and really laid into President George W. Bush.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN

Rick Steves! From watching his show and reading a few interviews, he sounds like the quintessential ethnic-cultural Lutheran who is clueless about theology.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 04:28:53 PM
There really must be a full moon out. In addition to the chikn idiocies, now the group starts turning on a fellow Lutheran who happens to have a tv show and travels around the world and makes videos supporting ELCA missions. Nice. Really nice.
Going out now, to pick some garlic so I can ward off the other weird and crazy things that start roaming the earth when there is a full moon.
Good grief!
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: passerby on August 02, 2012, 04:40:11 PM
Dave Benke,

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda

No contention taken.  The average bear is just going to do what the rest are doing and buy a chicken sandwich.  The other option would be to separate from the average bears and organize something else that stated why you were doing what you were doing and what it was and wasn't.  But that wouldn't be easy. 

Or you could have a churchly letter thing, even while having your sandwich and eating it too, stating (with others) why you ate that chicken, and that you're not a gay-hater/baiter even though you stand on the side of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

Dave Benke

But you're in NYC! Did anyone dare even show up yesterday at the Chick-fil-A at NYU right in the heart of Greenwich Village? In a heavily evangelical area like the South, I get that a mob of people showing up might suggest to gays that there is anti-gay sentiment--I have heard some of that crowd did make anti-gay remarks. But in NYC? If anyone said anything like that they'd be mobbed!
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: John_Hannah on August 02, 2012, 04:55:49 PM

1)  I am aware who started this - and I do recognize it was the supporters of tolerance for gays.  And I'm not considered by anyone who knows me a revisionist - probably quite the opposite.  I spent many years in advertising and television and I know a bit about perception - which often dictates reality.  Do I think some people were out there for  free speech - yeah, some.  But do I think that the gay issue motivated them - yes, I do.  Now if that's poor construction, sorry - but I did listen to interviews of people going in and out of C-A-F and sure sounded like that to me.   

2)  It's not veiled disgust -- frankly I did find the whole thing off-putting -- and it wasn't meant to be bullying.  My word - with some of the stuff written on this site you think that's bullying!!  I take great interest in our youth group and I simply would be offended to have had them take part in yesterday's event - because of the perceived intolerance of the event.


It is well to remember that one can be a committed and faithful Christian without political activism.

Peace, JOHN

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 02, 2012, 05:03:34 PM
And probably, Buckeye Deaconess, the chickens used by Mr. Cathy lead miserable lives, penned in a small wire-caged space where it can't move but just to lower its beak to eat and get fat.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 02, 2012, 05:23:29 PM
It is important that Mr. Roger Martim know this:

Chick-Fil-A chickens come from facilities inspected
by USDA as well as third party auditors.  Their
suppliers follow strict animal welfare and nutrient
management practices.  The National Chicken
Council publishes and sets the guidelines for all
of their suppliers who strictly adhere to them.
The chickens eat corn, soy, and wheat as well
as vitamins , minerals, and protein.  They are the
leader in following industry standards and even
going above them.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Steverem on August 02, 2012, 05:33:10 PM
And probably, Buckeye Deaconess, the chickens used by Mr. Cathy lead miserable lives, penned in a small wire-caged space where it can't move but just to lower its beak to eat and get fat.

Psst, don't tell anyone, but I hear that Ben and/or Jerry use electro-shock to increase production from the cows that provide the milk for their ice cream.

Isn't this fun?  Slandering a company and/or company official without an ounce of fact just because you find their politics objectionable.  Wheee!!!!  Anyone else want to join in?  Got any salacious stories about the redheaded, pigtailed girl in the Wendy's logo?  Some unsubstantiated charge against Colonel Sanders?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dan Fienen on August 02, 2012, 05:33:52 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but Mr. Cathy's opinions of same-sex marriage is not something that he uses to promote his brand.  I have seen a number of billboards for Chick-Fil-A, usually featuring cows suggesting that chicken is a good alternative to to beef.  I don't think this is a fight he chose, but he was asked a question and he answered it.  If people want to avoid his stores because of his views, that is their privilege.  For Mayors to try to run them out of town by official action (or keep them out of town)  because of his views is wrong.  As wrong as an evangelical mayor denying a permit for JCP or Target because of their pro-gay views.
 
As to the condition of the chickens used, let us make sure that every chicken you eat, every head of cattle that you eat are raised in the conditions of which you would approve, or is it only those whom you dislike that demand higher standards than industry standard?
 
Dan
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Voelker on August 02, 2012, 05:46:11 PM
Isn't this fun?  Slandering a company and/or company official without an ounce of fact just because you find their politics objectionable.  Wheee!!!!  Anyone else want to join in?  Got any salacious stories about the redheaded, pigtailed girl in the Wendy's logo?  Some unsubstantiated charge against Colonel Sanders?

You ask, we provide: according to this reputable and not-at-all-to-be-questioned source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/wendys-wants-consumers-to-know-its-fine-with-gays,28985), it looks like many of the big fast-food chains are putting their cards on the table. ;)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 02, 2012, 05:52:31 PM
Mr Roger Martim is probably referring to the
Campbell Soup Chicken farms in Minnesota
during the 1970's which kept each chicken
in a small cage in a barn with 500 total cages.
There was a huge public outcry at the time
about this inhumane treatment.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 06:20:30 PM
And probably, Buckeye Deaconess, the chickens used by Mr. Cathy lead miserable lives, penned in a small wire-caged space where it can't move but just to lower its beak to eat and get fat.

Mr. Martim:

I'll take your comments seriously when you put forth actual verifiable evidence of your claims.  So far all you've done is thrown out outrageous, politicized hyperbole.  If you want this conversation to be about Lutheranism, please put forth something Lutheran.  How about the Lutheran doctrine of vocation as it pertains to business practices?  Should leaders and employees check their faith at the door when they walk into work each day?  I'd love nothing more than to have an intelligent conversation with you on the subject, but you'll have to stick to the facts for that to happen.

- Kim Schave
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RevSteve on August 02, 2012, 07:18:39 PM
There really must be a full moon out. In addition to the chikn idiocies, now the group starts turning on a fellow Lutheran who happens to have a tv show and travels around the world and makes videos supporting ELCA missions. Nice. Really nice.
Going out now, to pick some garlic so I can ward off the other weird and crazy things that start roaming the earth when there is a full moon.
Good grief!

And what would you call referring to the opinions of those on these boards who choose to support Chik Fil a as "chicken idiocies"? Nice. Real nice.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: George Erdner on August 02, 2012, 08:20:29 PM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?

I didn't know that we were supposed to rank or prioritize different aspects of our faith. Are we supposed to judge and evaluate who we'll listen to by ranking their Christianness on some sort of numeric scale?
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 02, 2012, 08:35:49 PM
I must confess I'm not really sure what eating at or not eating at Chic fil la(?) will really accomplish.  This thread tends to fall into right-wing caricature whilst what started this whole thing - what the Boston and Chicago mayors did - also falls into left-wing caricature.  The driving force of this whole debate appears to be "my rights" whether left or right and I'm not so sure that plays out well with the proclamation of the Gospel.  Going to buy a sandwich at a fast food joint in "protest" doesn't necessarily bespeak Jesus' third way of love.  I think we American Christians are very good at taking the bait and then looking really bad.  Really, it's tit for tat with the 1st Amendment being the clear motivating point.  That's evidenced on this thread.  Yesterday someone posted a pic on Facebook of the drive thru line at a Chic fil la and in the line were mostly SUVs.  I just thought it was rather ironic, SUVs in line at a fast food joint.  Just kinda plays into the image of right wingers that has been propagated for years.  And what do people usually associate with the right wing in our country?  Christianity.

Peace,
Scott+

Personally for me, the bullying that occured at the ELCA church where my family was a member for 30 years is very similar to the bullying I see happening against Mr. Cathy.  This was after an admission very similar to Mr. Cathy's.  Members of my family were aghast at the bullying.  We left that congregation after 30 years of pouring our time and talent there.  This is not a right wing parody for me or for many of those who tell me similar stories.  This is a backlash against some "tolerant" mayors who selectively cut Mr. Cathy out of the herd and are looking to bring him down.  They leave alone other leaders such as Farakan and up until a few weeks ago President Obama.  Their actions are bullying.  Plain and simple.  I am so happy to go and give my support to Mr. Cathy and thank him for bringing a fabulous product to market.  Read Buckeye Deaconess report above, he's a wonderful businessman with great ethics.  But that doesn't stop the hyenas in political office and in the press. 

You can call it typical right wing/left wing but you are missing an important sentiment.  This is bullying plain and simple.  We're tired of it and had a wonderful time supporting a wonderful loving man and his company.

And for me and the buddies I sat with same sex marriage is not the primary issue.  We would have done this if Mr. Cathy had been pilloried for his stance on abortion or gun rights etc.  We are tired of being called something we are not because we have a valid point of view, even the ELCA says so.

Buckeye Deaconness picked a wonderful topic and I will be interested in her follow up after she presents her paper on Mr. Cathy. 

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 02, 2012, 08:36:27 PM
Buckeye Deaconess, please note that I used the word "probably" in my post about mistreated animals and so I am under no obligation to verify. It is a well known fact though that a huge proportion of animals used for our consumption do lead lives that are less than ideal. OK, you want to think that Mr. Cathy's chickens are happy birds, then go ahead, have a chicken sandwich on me.

And why are we extolling Mr. Cathy? He is not Lutheran. He is a fundamentalist Southern Baptist with a very narrow world view.

He doesn't believe in infant baptism which we as Lutherans uphold.

He doesn't believe in the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper which we as Lutherans uphold.

Most likely he is a "born again" Christian which abrogates all future sins whereas we Lutherans confess daily our sinful nature.

I guess it is OK that Mr. Cathy is the one who decides that the line is drawn between God's "wonderfully and fearfully made" creatures of "Us" versus "Them."

That's what I find disgusting.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 02, 2012, 08:42:56 PM
I guess it is OK that Mr. Cathy is the one who decides that the line is drawn between God's "wonderfully and fearfully made" creatures of "Us" versus "Them."

Please elaborate.  Where did he use the language of "us vs. them", draw a line that excludes them, and denied that "them" are fearfully and wonderfully made?  It's important because in the quotes provided by his sympathizers on this board, I did not see those words.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 02, 2012, 08:48:57 PM
And why are we extolling Mr. Cathy? He is not Lutheran. He is a fundamentalist Southern Baptist with a very narrow world view.

He doesn't believe in infant baptism which we as Lutherans uphold.

He doesn't believe in the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper which we as Lutherans uphold.

Most likely he is a "born again" Christian which abrogates all future sins whereas we Lutherans confess daily our sinful nature.

Please read Mr. Bergs' post just prior to yours, #89 I believe.  He gives the reasons that it matters to him as a former member of a Lutheran church. 

1.  He has personally experienced the same kind of treatment.

2.  The ELCA claims to consider it possible to be a good Lutheran Christian while not supporting same sex marriage, yet has passed on the opportunity to share the wisdom of one of it's social statements with the larger society.  (An opportunity that is seldom missed.)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: George Erdner on August 02, 2012, 08:53:03 PM
Buckeye Deaconess, please note that I used the word "probably" in my post about mistreated animals and so I am under no obligation to verify. It is a well known fact though that a huge proportion of animals used for our consumption do lead lives that are less than ideal. OK, you want to think that Mr. Cathy's chickens are happy birds, then go ahead, have a chicken sandwich on me.

And why are we extolling Mr. Cathy? He is not Lutheran. He is a fundamentalist Southern Baptist with a very narrow world view.

He doesn't believe in infant baptism which we as Lutherans uphold.

He doesn't believe in the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper which we as Lutherans uphold.

Most likely he is a "born again" Christian which abrogates all future sins whereas we Lutherans confess daily our sinful nature.

I guess it is OK that Mr. Cathy is the one who decides that the line is drawn between God's "wonderfully and fearfully made" creatures of "Us" versus "Them."

That's what I find disgusting.

Might he also be close-minded and judgemental? Or is that something Lutherans have a monopoly on.
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jim_Krauser on August 02, 2012, 09:03:39 PM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?

I didn't know that we were supposed to rank or prioritize different aspects of our faith. Are we supposed to judge and evaluate who we'll listen to by ranking their Christianness on some sort of numeric scale?
I just think that the whole hubbub here (and the support from staunch Lutherans) might be characterized by "strange bedfellows"  ;)
I suppose it might be another example of the adversary of my adversary is my friend.
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Likeness on August 02, 2012, 09:06:37 PM
In the 2010 book entitled,
"The Lutheran Difference" and edited by Rev.
Edward Engelbrecht he states in the foreword,

"All who worship the Holy Trinity and trust in
Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins are
regarded by Lutherans as Christians despite
denominational or nondenominational
differences."

Mr. Cathy, Rev. Billy Graham, and Mother Teresa
should be considered Christians.  This is not a
bash the Baptists thread.  This is a thread that
rejoices in the fact that Christians can stand
together against the world's agenda of ripping
apart basic Christian beliefs like God's plan for
marriage between a man and a woman.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 02, 2012, 09:32:35 PM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?

I didn't know that we were supposed to rank or prioritize different aspects of our faith. Are we supposed to judge and evaluate who we'll listen to by ranking their Christianness on some sort of numeric scale?
I just think that the whole hubbub here (and the support from staunch Lutherans) might be characterized by "strange bedfellows"  ;)
I suppose it might be another example of the adversary of my adversary is my friend.

No more strange than making common cause with people who despise religion and Christianity in particular.  Witness the ELCA's partnership with Dan Savage.  (Not to mention making common cause with a man who thinks rape might be just what some conservative legislators need.)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 09:40:04 PM
Having formerly been a member of the ELCA church, I state emphatically that I have more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA on the whole (with the exception of some of you fine folks on here and others I've cooperated in the externals with).  They were a delight to work alongside of in my mission and human care work in the south.  Where we excel as Lutherans in those environments is our focus on the Gospel.  However, there was never a question of where they stood with respect to God's Word.  The same cannot be said about ELCA Lutherans as can be noted on this forum.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Wallenstein on August 02, 2012, 09:47:08 PM
Buckeye Deaconess, please note that I used the word "probably" in my post about mistreated animals and so I am under no obligation to verify. It is a well known fact though that a huge proportion of animals used for our consumption do lead lives that are less than ideal. OK, you want to think that Mr. Cathy's chickens are happy birds, then go ahead, have a chicken sandwich on me.

And why are we extolling Mr. Cathy? He is not Lutheran. He is a fundamentalist Southern Baptist with a very narrow world view.


I suspect that you are a vegetarian.  Your claims align with those representing PETA.  One major weakness of PETA is the relentless bashing of people who eat meat.  People will continue to eat meat no matter how loud PETA screams at them to stop.  PETA would win more allies if it were to lobby for organic, small family farms, where animals are raised humanely.

I do understand PETA's position, but what does animal cruelty have to do with religious affiliation? :o :o :o
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 09:49:36 PM
Buckeye Deaconess, please note that I used the word "probably" in my post about mistreated animals and so I am under no obligation to verify. It is a well known fact though that a huge proportion of animals used for our consumption do lead lives that are less than ideal. OK, you want to think that Mr. Cathy's chickens are happy birds, then go ahead, have a chicken sandwich on me.

And why are we extolling Mr. Cathy? He is not Lutheran. He is a fundamentalist Southern Baptist with a very narrow world view.

He doesn't believe in infant baptism which we as Lutherans uphold.

He doesn't believe in the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper which we as Lutherans uphold.

Most likely he is a "born again" Christian which abrogates all future sins whereas we Lutherans confess daily our sinful nature.

I guess it is OK that Mr. Cathy is the one who decides that the line is drawn between God's "wonderfully and fearfully made" creatures of "Us" versus "Them."

That's what I find disgusting.

My comment about verifying your facts mostly pertained to the specifics of the Chick-fil-A situation.  You got it wrong on all accounts, unfortunately, by pinning this on the CEO as well as making false assumptions about the motives of those on this board who chose to eat there yesterday.

Wow, you like that word "disgusting."  So we as Lutheran's don't "extol" non-Lutherans?  Truett Cathy is a successful businessman who chose to run his business according to his Biblically-based worldview.  If that is narrow, well, I submit Mt 7:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7:13&version=ESV) to your reading.

I don't know your church affiliation, Mr. Martim, but as a former member of the ELCA, I have more in common with  Mr. Cathy than I do many Lutherans in that particular denomination.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 09:59:38 PM
For those of you interested (all others kindly ignore), here are a couple of more articles about yesterday's events.

Man fired for harrassing Chick-fil-A employee and posting video:
http://www.businessinsider.com/vante-cfo-bullies-chick-fil-a-worker-then-promptly-gets-fired-for-it-2012-8

Company posts record-setting sales:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/chick-fil-record-setting-sales-appreciation-day/story?id=16912978#.UBsH-2t5mK1

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 02, 2012, 10:06:07 PM
I'm beginning to think the whole thing was instigated by a chik-fil marketing guy. It would not have been hard to get the quote out there, drum up opposition and - voila! - record sales.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 02, 2012, 10:07:59 PM
I must confess I'm not really sure what eating at or not eating at Chic fil la(?) will really accomplish.  This thread tends to fall into right-wing caricature whilst what started this whole thing - what the Boston and Chicago mayors did - also falls into left-wing caricature.  The driving force of this whole debate appears to be "my rights" whether left or right and I'm not so sure that plays out well with the proclamation of the Gospel.  Going to buy a sandwich at a fast food joint in "protest" doesn't necessarily bespeak Jesus' third way of love.  I think we American Christians are very good at taking the bait and then looking really bad.  Really, it's tit for tat with the 1st Amendment being the clear motivating point.  That's evidenced on this thread.  Yesterday someone posted a pic on Facebook of the drive thru line at a Chic fil la and in the line were mostly SUVs.  I just thought it was rather ironic, SUVs in line at a fast food joint.  Just kinda plays into the image of right wingers that has been propagated for years.  And what do people usually associate with the right wing in our country?  Christianity.

Peace,
Scott+

For the record, this thread was not intended to be about Gospel proclamation.  It was simply a way to gauge how other Lutherans felt about yesterday's events.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 02, 2012, 10:18:23 PM
I'm beginning to think the whole thing was instigated by a chik-fil marketing guy. It would not have been hard to get the quote out there, drum up opposition and - voila! - record sales.

I remember when Jerry Falwell called Ellen Degeneres "Ellen Degenerate."  I sort of rooted for her after that and was glad her career rebounded.   
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: George Erdner on August 02, 2012, 10:19:59 PM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?

I didn't know that we were supposed to rank or prioritize different aspects of our faith. Are we supposed to judge and evaluate who we'll listen to by ranking their Christianness on some sort of numeric scale?
I just think that the whole hubbub here (and the support from staunch Lutherans) might be characterized by "strange bedfellows"  ;)
I suppose it might be another example of the adversary of my adversary is my friend.

I didn't realize that Baptists were Lutherans' adversaries.
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on August 02, 2012, 10:25:39 PM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?

I didn't know that we were supposed to rank or prioritize different aspects of our faith. Are we supposed to judge and evaluate who we'll listen to by ranking their Christianness on some sort of numeric scale?
I just think that the whole hubbub here (and the support from staunch Lutherans) might be characterized by "strange bedfellows"  ;)
I suppose it might be another example of the adversary of my adversary is my friend.

I didn't realize that Baptists were Lutherans' adversaries.

That reminded me of something.

http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-Three-Expressions/Churchwide-Organization/Communication-Services/News/Releases.aspx?a=3478

Quote
In the action, the council declared that the ELCA "repudiates the use of governmental authorities to punish individuals or groups with whom it disagrees theologically."  It rejected the arguments of Martin Luther and Philip Melanchthon, two 16th century church reformers, "in which they hold that governmental authorities should punish Anabaptists for their teaching," the action said.

Hmmmm, interesting....

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Scott6 on August 02, 2012, 10:48:15 PM
Perhaps folks are smarter than we give them credit for.  Here's an article (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-823655?hpt=hp_bn1) written by a 20 yr old gay man who can make the separation between a corporate exec having his free speech rights attacked and this somehow being about hating gay people.  While a number of distinctions he makes could still be sharpened in my mind, his overall point shows that folks are in fact capable of making distinctions, despite the spin that media outlets put out.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 02, 2012, 11:27:43 PM
Buckeye Deaconess says:
Having formerly been a member of the ELCA church, I state emphatically that I have more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA on the whole (with the exception of some of you fine folks on here and others I've cooperated in the externals with).  They were a delight to work alongside of in my mission and human care work in the south.  Where we excel as Lutherans in those environments is our focus on the Gospel.  However, there was never a question of where they stood with respect to God's Word.  The same cannot be said about ELCA Lutherans as can be noted on this forum.

I say:
Then why don't you join their side of the fence if you feel that they are so exemplory.
Born again Christians tell us Lutherans that we aren't baptized at our baptism as infants. We don't have the whole truth. We are incomplete. It is telling God that we are ready which is not at all Lutheran.
They have a very dim view of the Real Presence, in fact none. We Lutherans are sustained by the very fact that we are receiving the Body and Blood of Christ when we go up to the altar. Both LC-MS and ELCA subcribe to this. (So, the fact that you make this difference, then you need to study your catechism a bit more.)
Their Born Again Christology is based on that once "born again" you are saved forever. We Lutherans say that we sin daily and we are in constant need of God's forgiveness.


Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 02, 2012, 11:47:29 PM
Then why don't you join their side of the fence if you feel that they are so exemplory.

You keep talking about lines, us vs. them thinking, and now fences, but the only person talking that way that I'm aware of is you.  What's up with that.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 03, 2012, 12:05:53 AM
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: J.L. Precup on August 03, 2012, 12:11:41 AM
Perhaps folks are smarter than we give them credit for.  Here's an article (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-823655?hpt=hp_bn1) written by a 20 yr old gay man who can make the separation between a corporate exec having his free speech rights attacked and this somehow being about hating gay people.  While a number of distinctions he makes could still be sharpened in my mind, his overall point shows that folks are in fact capable of making distinctions, despite the spin that media outlets put out.

Agreed, most of this is a tempest in a chicken pot, er, fryer.  You can imagine, however, that any minority persecuted in the past (and occasionally denigrated in the present) would be hyper-sensitive to speech about them. 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 03, 2012, 12:15:47 AM
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.

So then where do you stand on the issue of abortion and homosexuality, Mr. Martim?  It is on these issues that I made my point above.  That is where inconsistent theology comes into play.  The Catholics have a different view of the Lord's Supper than we do . . . do you have the same level of disdain towards them as you seem to have for those who claim to be "born again"?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jim_Krauser on August 03, 2012, 12:16:21 AM
The chicken guy believes in traditional heterosexual marriage.
But as a Baptist, I venture he doesn't believe in traditional (infant) baptism. 
 
Which of his affirmations/beliefs is more important/central to the Christan faith?

I didn't know that we were supposed to rank or prioritize different aspects of our faith. Are we supposed to judge and evaluate who we'll listen to by ranking their Christianness on some sort of numeric scale?
I just think that the whole hubbub here (and the support from staunch Lutherans) might be characterized by "strange bedfellows"  ;)
I suppose it might be another example of the adversary of my adversary is my friend.

I didn't realize that Baptists were Lutherans' adversaries.
They deny the efficacy of my baptism and probably that of most of those writing here (not to mention the vast majority of Christians).  Since the Reformation those have tended to be regarded as adverse positions. 
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: ReformedCatholic on August 03, 2012, 12:16:42 AM
Dave Benke

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda

No contention taken.  The average bear is just going to do what the rest are doing and buy a chicken sandwich.  The other option would be to separate from the average bears and organize something else that stated why you were doing what you were doing and what it was and wasn't.  But that wouldn't be easy. 

Or you could have a churchly letter thing, even while having your sandwich and eating it too, stating (with others) why you ate that chicken, and that you're not a gay-hater/baiter even though you stand on the side of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

Dave Benke

But you're in NYC! Did anyone dare even show up yesterday at the Chick-fil-A at NYU right in the heart of Greenwich Village? In a heavily evangelical area like the South, I get that a mob of people showing up might suggest to gays that there is anti-gay sentiment--I have heard some of that crowd did make anti-gay remarks. But in NYC? If anyone said anything like that they'd be mobbed!

For the record....the sole Chick-fil-a in NYC is indeed located at NYU as the poster stated, BUT what he didn't say was that all NYer's knew it was CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER !!!!

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 03, 2012, 12:19:32 AM
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.

You said earlier:

I guess it is OK that Mr. Cathy is the one who decides that the line is drawn between God's "wonderfully and fearfully made" creatures of "Us" versus "Them."

And then later:

Then why don't you join their side of the fence if you feel that they are so exemplory.

So you allege that Mr. Cathy has drawn lines, denied that some are "wonderfully and fearfully made, and espoused an us vs. then mentality.  I asked you to share how you knew that.

Then you insist that someone must choose which side of the fence to be on.  Apparently you have decided that there is a fence between LCMS Lutherans and Baptists.  So who exactly is guilty of us vs. them thinking and drawing lines?

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Benke on August 03, 2012, 07:53:22 AM
Dave Benke

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda

No contention taken.  The average bear is just going to do what the rest are doing and buy a chicken sandwich.  The other option would be to separate from the average bears and organize something else that stated why you were doing what you were doing and what it was and wasn't.  But that wouldn't be easy. 

Or you could have a churchly letter thing, even while having your sandwich and eating it too, stating (with others) why you ate that chicken, and that you're not a gay-hater/baiter even though you stand on the side of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

Dave Benke

But you're in NYC! Did anyone dare even show up yesterday at the Chick-fil-A at NYU right in the heart of Greenwich Village? In a heavily evangelical area like the South, I get that a mob of people showing up might suggest to gays that there is anti-gay sentiment--I have heard some of that crowd did make anti-gay remarks. But in NYC? If anyone said anything like that they'd be mobbed!

For the record....the sole Chick-fil-a in NYC is indeed located at NYU as the poster stated, BUT what he didn't say was that all NYer's knew it was CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER !!!!

Plus, for those of us in the outer boroughs, the cost in time and possibly transit in getting over the village would be prohibitive.  For me it would take maybe an hour plus each way, and if I had to drive it would cost me (although I have EZ pass) $9 in tolls and about $30 for parking.  So it would be slow and painful.  And then I'd have gotten there and found out it was closed.  Which happens a lot to NYers, with their spouses or special others, who are going, "Wonderful - so we just spent $40 and three hours and what do we have?  We have plenty of nothing."  And then the silent ride home, and the hearing of "Why couldn't we just have gone to Pio Pio." 

Because the great and #1 chicken place in NY is Pio Pio, which is Peruvian, and located in its #1 spot (it has a few others) around 85th and Northern Blvd. in what used to be called Corona, but now probably has one of those new names, CitiField West or something like that. 

Today's Times article on this topic focused on the Southern food nature of Cathy and his enterprise, and highlighted, as it was going to do, a straight young man who frequents Chick-Fil-A because of the way it does chicken, even though his best buddy produces gay pornography, from whom the straight guy got permission to feed on Chick-Fil-A even though it was protest day.  And the lazy, crazy, hazy days of summer continue.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 03, 2012, 08:52:39 AM
And the timing is everything, hence my suspicion that the chikn folks cooked this up.
The news in August is usually that there isn't much news in August; and almost every year some quirky thingeroo that wouldn't otherwise merit more than a brief, suddenly "gets legs" (and in this case wings and breasts) and takes off, with boosts from egotistical politicians, celebrities or social reformers who see another chance to get their names in the papers, even if they have to retract what they say later.
WTG, mysterious chickn marketing guy (or gal).

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Gary Hatcher on August 03, 2012, 09:24:02 AM
And the timing is everything, hence my suspicion that the chikn folks cooked this up.
The news in August is usually that there isn't much news in August; and almost every year some quirky thingeroo that wouldn't otherwise merit more than a brief, suddenly "gets legs" (and in this case wings and breasts) and takes off, with boosts from egotistical politicians, celebrities or social reformers who see another chance to get their names in the papers, even if they have to retract what they say later.
WTG, mysterious chickn marketing guy (or gal).
Seriously?  I can see the conversation, "Let's give an interview on the chance that the media, politicians, and homosexual activists will make a big deal out of it and we'll sell a bunch more chicken."  Let's make sure that those in the media, politicians and the homosexual activists bear no responsibility for their actions, it's all those nasty Christians who just can't accept what we want. :-\
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Coach-Rev on August 03, 2012, 09:37:16 AM
I'm beginning to think the whole thing was instigated by a chik-fil marketing guy. It would not have been hard to get the quote out there, drum up opposition and - voila! - record sales.

You aren't serious?  Wow.  This from the man who won't believe ANYTHING without names/dates/places/facts/and so on....

Hold on, I can hear the helicopter blades now...
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Coach-Rev on August 03, 2012, 09:37:59 AM
You gotta love the hypocrisy of what he does, all the while saying "I just can't stand the hate." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUk-5R14jE0

kudos to his "victim" for maintaining her composure in the face of his bullying and hate speech.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 03, 2012, 09:51:14 AM
Pastor Hatcher writes:
Seriously?  I can see the conversation, "Let's give an interview on the chance that the media, politicians, and homosexual activists will make a big deal out of it and we'll sell a bunch more chicken."  Let's make sure that those in the media, politicians and the homosexual activists bear no responsibility for their actions, it's all those nasty Christians who just can't accept what we want.

I comment:
There would have been - in my imagined scenario - no reference to "nasty Christians." It would be a simple focus on a way to get the name of the Chikn place in the news and stir up some business. And it wouldn't be - in my imagined scenario - a "chance"; the plotters would be rather confident that their device would work.
And if my imagined scenario were anywhere close to true, guess who the dupes and patsies are? 1. The pro-gay folks who got all twisted about some CEO's remarks; and 2. Those who thought they were defending "traditional" marriage by eating a particular product.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: DCharlton on August 03, 2012, 11:28:07 AM
And the timing is everything, hence my suspicion that the chikn folks cooked this up.
The news in August is usually that there isn't much news in August; and almost every year some quirky thingeroo that wouldn't otherwise merit more than a brief, suddenly "gets legs" (and in this case wings and breasts) and takes off, with boosts from egotistical politicians, celebrities or social reformers who see another chance to get their names in the papers, even if they have to retract what they say later.
WTG, mysterious chickn marketing guy (or gal).

But the truth of the matter is that it was most likely an attempt to use an interview in Christianity Today to created false outrage about "intolerance" and further the cause of same-sex marriage.  The evil haters at Chick-fil-A could then be contrasted to the noble and enlightened corporate types at Microsoft and Google, who in July made large donations to the cause of same-sex marriage.

Now before you start stamping your foot and shouting that my theory is loony, hysterical, outrageous and unsubstantiated, remember that I am simply offering a counter theory to yours.  I'm not claiming it is true, only that it is more likely than your loony, hysterical, outrageous and unsubstantiated theory.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Gary Hatcher on August 03, 2012, 11:29:00 AM
Pastor Hatcher writes:
Seriously?  I can see the conversation, "Let's give an interview on the chance that the media, politicians, and homosexual activists will make a big deal out of it and we'll sell a bunch more chicken."  Let's make sure that those in the media, politicians and the homosexual activists bear no responsibility for their actions, it's all those nasty Christians who just can't accept what we want.

I comment:
There would have been - in my imagined scenario - no reference to "nasty Christians." It would be a simple focus on a way to get the name of the Chikn place in the news and stir up some business. And it wouldn't be - in my imagined scenario - a "chance"; the plotters would be rather confident that their device would work.
And if my imagined scenario were anywhere close to true, guess who the dupes and patsies are? 1. The pro-gay folks who got all twisted about some CEO's remarks; and 2. Those who thought they were defending "traditional" marriage by eating a particular product.
Charles, I understand that you imagined it.  I just was wondering what possible good it serves to post this imagining.  The media, the politicians and some in the glbt et al community overreacted and your imaginings give the impression of bailing them out by blaming the victim.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: David Garner on August 03, 2012, 12:33:49 PM
I would have, but it was the first day of the Dormition Fast.  That didn't stop some of my Orthodox friends, but I decided political showcasing was less important than keeping the fast. 

I'll still eat at Chick-fil-A though.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Matt Hummel on August 03, 2012, 01:12:51 PM
You gotta love the hypocrisy of what he does, all the while saying "I just can't stand the hate." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUk-5R14jE0

kudos to his "victim" for maintaining her composure in the face of his bullying and hate speech.

Drat- I had wanted to be the first to post the clip here to say the reason I participated in Wednesday's festivities is that I was sick and tired of self-important little moral gauleiters like this, with no real courage who put the boot in when they think they can get away with it and then sit back to receive moral acclamation.  He sounded exactly like the voices of the self-righteous advocates for sexual equality,, etc. at any ELCA Synod Assembly.  Looks like Mr. Smith paid a price for his actions.  Good on Vante and its CEO.  And what, pray tell, is the business with announcing his heterosexuality?  One wonders if it's like senses of humor.  Have you ever met anyone who told you in the first 30 seconds of meeting that they were funny who actually was?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave Benke on August 03, 2012, 01:17:11 PM
You gotta love the hypocrisy of what he does, all the while saying "I just can't stand the hate." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUk-5R14jE0

kudos to his "victim" for maintaining her composure in the face of his bullying and hate speech.

Drat- I had wanted to be the first to post the clip here to say the reason I participated in Wednesday's festivities is that I was sick and tired of self-important little moral gauleiters like this, with no real courage who put the boot in when they think they can get away with it and then sit back to receive moral acclamation.  He sounded exactly like the voices of the self-righteous advocates for sexual equality,, etc. at any ELCA Synod Assembly.  Looks like Mr. Smith paid a price for his actions.  Good on Vante and its CEO.  And what, pray tell, is the business with announcing his heterosexuality?  One wonders if it's like senses of humor.  Have you ever met anyone who told you in the first 30 seconds of meeting that they were funny who actually was?

"Gauleiter" = word of the week.  Nice.  "Moral gauleiter" = doubly nice.

Dave Benke
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Keith Falk on August 03, 2012, 03:37:25 PM
I will simply remind you - as I believe it was Bergs earlier who also did - who started this whole mess?  Think hard.  It wasn't the "anti-gay" "Christian right" "mean-spirited/hateful" supporters of traditional marriage.  It was those revisionists who claim to espouse such tremendous tolerance for all points of view.

And quite frankly, I'm deeply offended by your insistence that anyone who stands up for a man who espoused a traditional view of marriage as "anti-gay."  Your veiled disgust at Rev. Falk and the youth group is equally offensive and - dare I say it? - bully behavior.

1)  I am aware who started this - and I do recognize it was the supporters of tolerance for gays.  And I'm not considered by anyone who knows me a revisionist - probably quite the opposite.  I spent many years in advertising and television and I know a bit about perception - which often dictates reality.  Do I think some people were out there for  free speech - yeah, some.  But do I think that the gay issue motivated them - yes, I do.  Now if that's poor construction, sorry - but I did listen to interviews of people going in and out of C-A-F and sure sounded like that to me.   

2)  It's not veiled disgust -- frankly I did find the whole thing off-putting -- and it wasn't meant to be bullying.  My word - with some of the stuff written on this site you think that's bullying!!  I take great interest in our youth group and I simply would be offended to have had them take part in yesterday's event - because of the perceived intolerance of the event.


All I wrote is that I had a hunch as to why a person donated Chick-Fil-A on that day.  The youth group wasn't told, "Hey, we're having Chick-Fil-A to support them!", nor was it implied.  All was said that someone donated Chick-Fil-A for the evening.  Period.  It has happened before (that Chick-Fil-A was donated) and it was welcomed that evening.  No need to read more into it than actually happened.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: RogerMartim on August 03, 2012, 05:38:19 PM
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.

So then where do you stand on the issue of abortion and homosexuality, Mr. Martim?  It is on these issues that I made my point above.  That is where inconsistent theology comes into play.  The Catholics have a different view of the Lord's Supper than we do . . . do you have the same level of disdain towards them as you seem to have for those who claim to be "born again"?

I am pretty much of the anti-abortion sentiment and on the issue of homosexuality, I find that it is too much of a complicated subject to relegate it to a Chic-Fil-A (I think I got it right this time, Mr. Erdner) love-in.

As for the doctrinal differences in the Real Presence, as Lutherans we should feel much more of an affinity to the Roman Catholic's position of Transubstantiation than to the position of that it is only a symbol espoused by most Protestants. It's probably more of a matter of semantics. As for the "born again" position, we Lutherans are indeed born again which takes place at our baptism. But there is a very huge and gaping hole in the understanding of what it is to be born again by a large segment of our Protestant brothers and sisters. Lutherans simply do not subscribe to the theology behind "born again"ism in the same way that Baptists, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists do.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Wallenstein on August 03, 2012, 06:32:26 PM
We now know for sure the morals of the owners of "mainstream" media.  Such morals do not align with confessional Lutheran theology:


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mainstream-media-blacks-out-chick-fil-story_649234.html


Record sales!  I can imagine all the other retailers across the country quietly yearning to imitate the success of Chick-fil-A.  "Morality sells!"  Perhaps this is the start of an emerging trend?

 :)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 03, 2012, 06:50:59 PM
We now know for sure the morals of the owners of "mainstream" media.  Such morals do not align with confessional Lutheran theology:


I've been thinking that there are two different dichotomies that are often confused.


There are differences between being Christian and being non-Christian (or if you wish, Christian theology and non-Christian theology).


There are differences between being moral and being immoral.


Many religious adherents (Christian and non-Christian) lead moral lives. There can be individuals who could ace a test on Christian theology, but whose lives would fall in the immoral side.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: passerby on August 03, 2012, 07:23:33 PM
Dave Benke

How would you publicly show your support for Chick-Fil-A President, Dan Cathy?  Not asking to be contentious, and if you think my question is inappropriate, no response is necessary.

Linda

No contention taken.  The average bear is just going to do what the rest are doing and buy a chicken sandwich.  The other option would be to separate from the average bears and organize something else that stated why you were doing what you were doing and what it was and wasn't.  But that wouldn't be easy. 

Or you could have a churchly letter thing, even while having your sandwich and eating it too, stating (with others) why you ate that chicken, and that you're not a gay-hater/baiter even though you stand on the side of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

Dave Benke

But you're in NYC! Did anyone dare even show up yesterday at the Chick-fil-A at NYU right in the heart of Greenwich Village? In a heavily evangelical area like the South, I get that a mob of people showing up might suggest to gays that there is anti-gay sentiment--I have heard some of that crowd did make anti-gay remarks. But in NYC? If anyone said anything like that they'd be mobbed!

For the record....the sole Chick-fil-a in NYC is indeed located at NYU as the poster stated, BUT what he didn't say was that all NYer's knew it was CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER !!!!

Plus, for those of us in the outer boroughs, the cost in time and possibly transit in getting over the village would be prohibitive.  For me it would take maybe an hour plus each way, and if I had to drive it would cost me (although I have EZ pass) $9 in tolls and about $30 for parking.  So it would be slow and painful.  And then I'd have gotten there and found out it was closed.  Which happens a lot to NYers, with their spouses or special others, who are going, "Wonderful - so we just spent $40 and three hours and what do we have?  We have plenty of nothing."  And then the silent ride home, and the hearing of "Why couldn't we just have gone to Pio Pio." 

Because the great and #1 chicken place in NY is Pio Pio, which is Peruvian, and located in its #1 spot (it has a few others) around 85th and Northern Blvd. in what used to be called Corona, but now probably has one of those new names, CitiField West or something like that. 

Today's Times article on this topic focused on the Southern food nature of Cathy and his enterprise, and highlighted, as it was going to do, a straight young man who frequents Chick-Fil-A because of the way it does chicken, even though his best buddy produces gay pornography, from whom the straight guy got permission to feed on Chick-Fil-A even though it was protest day.  And the lazy, crazy, hazy days of summer continue.

Dave Benke

As an alumni of NYU I should be deprived of my id card for forgetting that even summer school is closed now. I blame it on the heat.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: passerby on August 03, 2012, 07:27:26 PM
There really must be a full moon out. In addition to the chikn idiocies, now the group starts turning on a fellow Lutheran who happens to have a tv show and travels around the world and makes videos supporting ELCA missions. Nice. Really nice.
Going out now, to pick some garlic so I can ward off the other weird and crazy things that start roaming the earth when there is a full moon.
Good grief!

Luther Seminary could do better than having Steves for a vocations lecture, that's all I was saying. He may also be a good guy supporting the ELCA missions, etc.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jim_Krauser on August 03, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
What's so complicated by that? The Deaconess has said that she has "more in common as an LCMS Lutheran with Southern Baptists than I do the ELCA..." She's made it clear. I just pointed out that this is inconsistent with Lutheran theology. The two have nothing in common. I think I explained that quite clearly in the previous post at the variances.

So then where do you stand on the issue of abortion and homosexuality, Mr. Martim?  It is on these issues that I made my point above.  That is where inconsistent theology comes into play.  The Catholics have a different view of the Lord's Supper than we do . . . do you have the same level of disdain towards them as you seem to have for those who claim to be "born again"?

I am pretty much of the anti-abortion sentiment and on the issue of homosexuality, I find that it is too much of a complicated subject to relegate it to a Chic-Fil-A (I think I got it right this time, Mr. Erdner) love-in.

As for the doctrinal differences in the Real Presence, as Lutherans we should feel much more of an affinity to the Roman Catholic's position of Transubstantiation than to the position of that it is only a symbol espoused by most Protestants. It's probably more of a matter of semantics. As for the "born again" position, we Lutherans are indeed born again which takes place at our baptism. But there is a very huge and gaping hole in the understanding of what it is to be born again by a large segment of our Protestant brothers and sisters. Lutherans simply do not subscribe to the theology behind "born again"ism in the same way that Baptists, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists do.
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception. 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Buckeye Deaconess on August 03, 2012, 09:41:35 PM
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Thanks.  I thought this was an odd line of argumentation and chose not to engage any further on the topic (being doubtful it would get anywhere).  Thanks for making this point.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Chuck on August 03, 2012, 10:24:58 PM
KFC weighs in... (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e86050c415/kfc-loves-gays-with-john-goodman?playlist=featured_videos)
(Satire...don't take it seriously)
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Matt Hummel on August 04, 2012, 08:28:06 AM
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Interesting use of quotations.  What are your thoughts on those who comment on/refer to homosexual "marriage?"
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on August 04, 2012, 11:05:39 AM
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Interesting use of quotations.  What are your thoughts on those who comment on/refer to homosexual "marriage?"


My thoughts are that it fits most of the dictionary definitions of "marriage" (given below).

1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
     • a similar long-term relationship between partners of the same sex.
     • a relationship between married people or the period for which it lasts : a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
     • figurative a combination or mixture of two or more elements : a marriage of jazz, pop, blues, and gospel.
2 (in pinochle and other card games) a combination of a king and queen of the same suit.

Some states have legal same-gender "marriages". Thus there is the formal union that is recognized by law (and there are same-gender couples who use "husband" and "wife" for each other).


The first sub-definition under 1 would apply even in states where same-gender "marriages" are not legal.


If the word "marriage" can be used of styles of music, why not also for the relationship of same-gendered people?
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Jim_Krauser on August 04, 2012, 11:48:02 AM
Off topic alert: 
While we may have similar and perhaps compatable (though that could be argued) positions regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist with the Roman Church, our understanding of it as a means of Grace is quite different.  The Roman Church teaches that benefits can be received from the consecrated host without actually eating it.  Lutherans might agree that Christ is present in the bread present in the ciborium but no Lutheran should acknowledge that there is any benefit to be had from it apart from eating (and drinking), nor is the sacrament to be "adored" apart from reception.

Interesting use of quotations.  What are your thoughts on those who comment on/refer to homosexual "marriage?"

The use of the quotations was probably grammatically incorrect, though my inclination to use them was based on the idea that adore in this context was meant as shorthand referent for the specific devotion:  Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament.  Thus my use was regarding "adore" as a term of art. 
No doubt the persons practicing the devotion are actually and truly adoring it, idolatrous as that might seem to reformed sensabilities or as an improper (ab)use of the sacrament..
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Linda on August 15, 2012, 09:40:55 AM
Dan Cathy And The Silence Of Many Churches
Written on August 5, 2012 by admin in Uncategorized

Chick-fil-A reported record sales last Wednesday as thousands showed support for owner Dan Cathy and his stance on Biblical marriage. However, while individual believers stood in long lines to publicly endorse God’s plan for the family and vent their frustration at the media’s criticism of Dan Cathy’s Biblical stance, a number of churches seemed to opt out of the conflict.

While the mayors of three large cities and a few University administrators were publicly threatening to ban Chick-fil-A, and while the discussion was the hot news topic of the week, there were many ministers who said little or nothing at all. Church members from across the country are puzzled as to why. When a Christian brother is beaten up by the world and left wounded on the side of the road why would church leaders just pass by on the other side and not get involved?

Some are fearful of criticism. No one likes to get nasty emails or hear derogatory comments about their church. If you stand for Biblical marriage you are sure to be accused of being bigoted, hateful, or intolerant. Dan Cathy is a prime example. Jesus said, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me”. (Matthew 5:11) But it doesn’t feel blessed when it happens, and it seems many Christian leaders do everything they can to avoid persecution. Perhaps they love the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Some leaders think it’s wise to stay out of the fray in order to better evangelize the lost. Ministers know one of the primary reasons people are turned off to the church today is because of its stance on homosexuality. They fear that if their church gets a reputation as being homophobic then an increasing number of people – both gay and straight -will refuse to visit. They think a bad public image makes it more difficult to evangelize. After all, it doesn’t make good sense to alienate the very people they’re trying to win. So these church leaders continue to keep silent in hopes that Dan Cathy and those who believe as he does will survive the attacks. They pass by on the other side of the road because they don’t want to be found guilty by association.

Another contributing factor for their silence is a sensitivity for hurting church members. Many of us have relatives or close friends who are involved in the LGBT lifestyle. We love them and we’re praying they come to know the Lord and obey His Word. They may even be attending church and we don’t want the preacher saying anything that will alienate them or confirm their erroneous suspicions that they’re not welcome.

As a result, when the preacher takes a stand that could be interpreted as anti-gay he gets criticism from family members who are disappointed at his lack of sensitivity for their situation. The preacher doesn’t want to hurt already wounded souls, so he keeps quiet.

Perhaps the primary reason not much is said in church anymore is the cultural war is passé. The younger generation of Christian leaders is tired of the cultural war. In their minds it was fought (and lost) by the previous generation. They feel it’s time to acknowledge it doesn’t do any good to get involved in social and political issues so let’s focus on repenting of our own sins and deepening our Christian walk. After all, there are so many other issues that the rest of us struggle with every day; gossip, greed, indifference, hypocrisy. Why single out one sin and focus so much time on it?

Not long ago a young Christian blogger in North Carolina wrote an article entitled “How to Win a Culture War and Lose a Generation.” She was upset that the controversial initiative to ban gay marriage in North Carolina had alienated so many. It was painfully polarizing. She pleaded for “less waging war and more washing feet.” The cultural war made her feel “awkward” in her circle of friends.

Really? You’re “tired”? Afraid to feel “awkward”? Tell that to John the Baptist who lost his life speaking out against the sexual sins of the king. Or what about Stephen or James or Peter or Dietrich Bonhoeffer or Jim Elliot or Nate Saint or scores of other martyrs who have lost their lives standing for Christ and His Word. Did Jesus condemn John the Baptist for speaking out against a politician? No. Jesus said “Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist“ (Matthew 11:11) We are commanded to be faithful unto death. Jesus said, “If anyone is ashamed of me, AND MY WORDS,… the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in His father’s glory.” (Mark 8:38)

So while the world wages war against Biblical marriage, many Church leaders hunker down in foxholes of silence hoping the fighting will subside and church-life will get back to normal. But like it or not, we are involved in an intense spiritual battle. Martin Luther once said, “If I be valiant all along the battle line except at the point where Satan is pressing his attack, I am not valiant for Christ.”

Here are four reasons why church leaders need to speak up consistently and courageously:

Our silence is not saving homosexuals. Sin separates us from God and leads to death. The church is required to call people to acknowledge their sin and repent. And, yes, churches want to be known for what they’re for, not for what they’re against. We want a reputation for loving people, not condemning them. But failing to call people away from a sinful lifestyle is neither loving nor caring. The proper response to a driver going the wrong way up an exit ramp is to blow the horn. To fail to sound a warning would be unconsionable even though initially the wayward driver doesn’t want to hear it. The church must provide acceptance for repentant sinners and provide encouragement away from sinful lifestyles. And there are scores of Christians who were once involved in the LGBT lifestyle who have found their new identity in Christ because Christian leaders were not afraid to speak the truth.

Better now than later. Church leaders will soon have to take a stand one way or the other. The longer you wait to mow the grass or establish order in a classroom the more difficult it becomes. The longer you wait to let your congregation and community know where your church stands, the more flak and fallout you will experience. Churches cannot feign neutrality much longer.

Our silence is contributing to the loss of our children to the church. While we stay mum so we don’t alienate the world, our own children and grandchildren are being swept away by the constant pro-gay propaganda coming from the media and the entertainment world. We assume they believe the same way we do, but when they hear little or nothing from God’s Word on this issue they get swept away by the spirit of this age.

We are commissioned to preach the whole counsel of God regardless of consequences or we will be held accountable. We were not called into ministry to put our finger in the air and see which way the cultural winds are blowing and adjust. We were called to preach the word “in season and out of season” and not just “say what itching ears want to hear.” (2 Timothy 4:1-5) And the Bible clearly warns us about our failure to do so: “When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.” (Ezekiel 33:8)

John Calvin said “A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw the truth of God attacked and yet would remain silent.” In the end, we will be judged not by the favorable impression we have in the world but by our faithfulness in proclaiming God’s truth. That takes boldness … and constant vigilance. But we are following in the footsteps of forefathers who, “loved not their lives even unto death”. For “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.” – Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Well-written opinion by Bob Russell.

Linda
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: George Erdner on August 15, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
I ate a Chick-fil-A sandwich on Monday for lunch. I had no political motive for doing so. I was hungry, and I like spicy chicken sandwiches. As fast food sandwiches go, it was delicious.
 
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Dan Fienen on August 16, 2012, 05:36:14 PM
One disturbing aspect to all this is that after being assured that those who do not support gay marriage, are on the loosing side of history and are becoming a distinct minority as most people, especially in the younger generation, support gay marriage and disapprove of those who do not.  With that information one would expect that the support Chick-fil-A would have been a bust with all those majority of right minded people potesting Chick-fil-A, not eating there.  They would have then turned out for the protest day.
 
How disappointing that the real event did not live up to what we have been assured we should have expected and admonished to modify our own views and opinions to go with where history is leaving us and Chick-fil-A in the dust.
 
Dan
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Hillwillliam on August 22, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
This is not merely a political ploy. It represents the reaction of those who are tired of their constitutional rights being stepped on by secular power groups. This country was founded in part on guarantees of religious freedom and freedom of speech.

This is only the beginning of the fight to restore our religious freedom. The Baptists aren't the only ones rejecting this incarnation of "newspeak" that attempts to keep Christians from speaking the truth. The open letter "Free Exercise of Religion: Putting Beliefs into Practice" was signed by leaders of many denominations including LCMS, NALC, WELS, and the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, Archbishops of the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox, Evangelical, Assembly of God, Islamic Society, etc. I'm sure you have heard of this letter so won't go on about it. As an example of just how serious these folks are about defending our freedom of speech and religion I would like to refer you to a youtube video put out by the Catholic Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&amp;hd

I, for one, am tired of being told what I can think.

God's Peace
Gary Hinton
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Charles_Austin on August 23, 2012, 03:53:24 AM
Give us some examples, Mr. Hinton, of where you are being "told what to think." You might be hearing voices saying you "should" think this way or that, but those voices come from all sides of the social and political spectrum. That is quite different.
There is a discussion on another part of this forum about whether the debate over health care is a freedom of religion issue or not; and there are nuances and differences on many sides.

Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Hillwillliam on August 23, 2012, 11:17:55 AM
I did give you examples. Read the Open Letter and watch the video and you have all the examples needed. The letter can be downloaded at the LCMS websight signed by one of the most ecumenical groups I have ever seen. Letter can be found at: www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1861

Of course if your point is that I don't have the right to believe that being forced to financially support the recreational sex of others.... you may want to call the thought police.
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Norman Teigen on August 24, 2012, 01:25:30 PM
RE #141   The Evangelical Lutheran Synod has, regrettably, gotten into this mess.  One reason for this is that an extreme right-wing member of the ELS is running for Congress in the First Minnesota District.  This man is also on the ELS Doctrinal Committee.  This man's financial director is a member of the ELS Doctrinal Committee.  This candidate's pastor is the secretary of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod.  The similarities between the candidate's public comments and the ELS Proclamation on the subject are remarkably similar.   It is not a good thing when a church body embraces partisan secular politics. 

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Robert Johnson on August 25, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
It is not a good thing when a church body embraces partisan secular politics. 

Somebody should notify the ELCA!
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Bergs on February 02, 2013, 08:18:20 PM
This is a very excellent post.  Two men being able to talk to each other over the great divide and maybe get to a greater understanding of each other despite their disagreements.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a_b_2564379.html

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
Title: Re: Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day
Post by: Matt Hummel on February 02, 2013, 08:33:53 PM
I just note that it was the "hater" who reached out.