Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 351769 times)

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4245 on: October 31, 2020, 11:40:54 PM »
Only the government can “censor.” And there are gaps in the “laptop affair.”
Perhaps you have not noticed the rash of forum posts where not posted by Richard Johnson ... but edited by him ... such as here.

Censorship does exist apart from the government.

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4246 on: November 01, 2020, 01:02:56 AM »
“Censor” generally means government suppression of information.
If a newspaper, magazine or television chooses not to publish or air, let us say, a QAnon press release, that is nor censorship in the technical sense of the word.
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Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4247 on: November 01, 2020, 01:39:51 AM »
Check your dictionary definitions ... none restrict censorship to governmental entities ... in fact Wikipedia specifically extends censorship beyond the government ...

Quote
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient." Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies.

Note: The politically posturing Merriam-Webster folks were deliberately ignored for this post.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4248 on: November 01, 2020, 01:59:55 AM »

The article you reference is dated September 23.  Apparently you are unaware of the fact that since then a certain laptop has been produced which belonged to Hunter Biden containing a good deal more information about the dealings of Hunter with foreign entities - information which implicates his father Joe in the dealings, as well.  Senator Johnson, referred to above, has since suggested that a Special Counsel may be needed to investigate the matter.  It is understandable that you are not aware of these developments since the report was censored by Twitter, Facebook, and Google and ignored by the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, and CBS among others.

Marshall Hahn


Here is a more recent article dealing with the laptop.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/us/politics/hunter-biden-laptop.html
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Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4249 on: November 01, 2020, 04:07:51 AM »
This is silly. Those here have already dismissed:
   -the President's clear violation of the emoluments clause
   -members of his family/"staff" arranging to profit from his gig as president
   -huge sums of money flowing into Trump corporation entities from government business
   -Trump financial and legal irregularities with Deutsche Bank and Halkbank in Turkey
   -statements from New York attorneys general about fraud concerning Trump taxes and business practices
   -errors of fact on the president's financial disclosure statements, and
   -the proven scam of "Trump University."
So it is more than a little hypocritical to get all umpitty-ump-ump "righteous" about vague, unproven and inconclusive rumors about what might be on a laptop belonging to Biden's son which may or may not (and probably not) have something to do with an investigation by Republicans which found no fault on the part of the candidate.
Is there any possibility that the sane and thoughtful people in this modest forum can talk about actual issues and potential policies rather than wild, unproven rumors?
A final word (at least from me) on "censorship."
Dueling dictionaries is boring pedantry. Censorship in most intelligent circles is a term of art, that is, it refers to government authority forbidding, under penalty of law, the publication or dissemination of information.
   If a non-governmental agency decides not to publish something, that is not censorship.
   Every single writer in the world, including this humble correspondent, has had articles rejected by magazines, newspapers or publishing houses (like ALPB). Is this "censorship" ? No it is not.
   Every single newspaper, magazine or broadcast outlet in the world decides every day that item #1 gets published or put on the air and item #2 doesn't. Is this "censorship" of item #2? No, it is not. It is a news or business judgement.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4250 on: November 01, 2020, 11:55:01 AM »
A final word (at least from me) on "censorship." Dueling dictionaries is boring pedantry. Censorship in most intelligent circles is a term of art, that is, it refers to government authority forbidding, under penalty of law, the publication or dissemination of information.    If a non-governmental agency decides not to publish something, that is not censorship.    Every single writer in the world, including this humble correspondent, has had articles rejected by magazines, newspapers or publishing houses (like ALPB). Is this "censorship" ? No it is not.    Every single newspaper, magazine or broadcast outlet in the world decides every day that item #1 gets published or put on the air and item #2 doesn't. Is this "censorship" of item #2? No, it is not. It is a news or business judgement.

Is the requirement to drive on the right side of the road ‘pedantry’?  Most would say absolutely not!

While Rev Austin is free to define words and terms in anyway he wishes, respectfully he is hampering the effectiveness of his communication efforts.  When he uses ‘censorship’ in future posts, apart from his definition above, his message ...or at least his intended message may be obfuscated due to his non dictionary usage of the word.

While some may consider this petty, the intent is to further constructive dialogue by increasing the chance that his ‘intended’ message is actually the message that is conveyed to his readers. The intent of this comment is enhance dialogue and communication ... not hamper or derail it.

When media and moderators deliberately restrict and limit both sides of an issue from being fairly presented (especially when content is deliberately rejected or removed) censorship ... at least in the dictionary censorship occurs ... resulting in the presenting of half truths.

Does media exist to report all the news ... both sides ... or does media exist to be and/or create the news in their own image?

jebutler

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4251 on: November 01, 2020, 12:23:18 PM »
   Every single writer in the world, including this humble correspondent, has had articles rejected by magazines, newspapers or publishing houses (like ALPB). Is this "censorship" ? No it is not.

You are a funny guy.

Earlier you defined the term "humble correspondent" with simply writing letters. Therefore, none of your words here should be taken as journalism in any sense of the word, nor should we hold you to any journalistic standards.

Now, in defense of censorship, you redefine the term "humble correspondent" to mean journalist. It's quite illuminating. Apparently, words mean whatever you want them to mean.

On the issue of censorship, you are simply wrong. The freedom of the press is simple: you got a press, you're free to print what you want. No one is obligated to print what you write.

Still, decisions as to what to print are a form of censorship. Publishing creepy porn lawyer Michael Avenatti's accusations that Justice Kavanaugh ran a gang rape train while in high school (not to mention a host of other wild accusations) while ignoring the Biden story is simply censorship. Every single point you make about the Biden stuff was also true of Avenatti's, but I don't remember you complaining at the time. In fact, you argued that the nomination should be withdrawn.

Every single point you make about the Biden stuff can be made about the many accusations by anonymous senior sources that the Times and the Post have published about Trump--only now we know that "senior official" is a synonym for "Miles Taylor."

That is censorship, plain and simple. It's not government censorship, but its censorship all the same.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4252 on: November 01, 2020, 01:00:08 PM »
From the Texas Tribune,
The Federal Bureau of Investigation is looking into a Friday incident in which a group of Trump supporters, driving trucks and waving Trump flags, surrounded and followed a Biden campaign bus as it drove up I-35 in Hays County, a law enforcement official confirmed to The Texas Tribune Saturday.
The confrontation, captured on video, featured at least one minor collision and led to Texas Democrats canceling three scheduled campaign events on Friday. The campaign officials cited “safety concerns” for the cancellations.
On Saturday night, Trump tweeted a video of the Trump supporters following the Biden bus saying, “I LOVE TEXAS!”

I comment:
So our “law and order” president endorses the hassling of a campaign rally, to the point where,. For the safety of participants, the Biden campaign cancels the rally. Texas and Trump, perfect together.

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D. Engebretson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4253 on: November 01, 2020, 01:17:09 PM »
This article is about a half month old now, but I suspect the information has remained fairly current leading up to this last stretch.  The author ends his article saying:

Trump was a margin of error from victory. Now he’s not.

Could he come back? Maybe. Polling has been wrong enough times to emphasise uncertainty. But this time there are strong factors in its favour: the size and stability of the lead; the improvements in polling; the lack of evidence for shy Trump voters; the lack of undecided voters, and the fact those who exist are less likely, demographically, to break for Trump.

Our election model puts Biden’s chances of winning at 88 per cent...


https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2020/10/us-2020-election-could-polls-be-underestimating-donald-trump

As with 2016 I realize anything is possible and wait to be surprised again.  But Trump continues to lag in the polls and given all that has happened in the past year I will not be surprised if he does not pull out a victory this time around. Biden, in my opinion, is a more likeable candidate than Clinton, and some former Trump voters have been vocal about jumping ship this time around.  But who knows...?

Either way the sun will come up and life will go on. 

If Biden wins then he will be under the national microscope.  But given his age I highly doubt he needs to look to a second term. From the beginning I have said the person to watch is Kamala Harris.  If Biden wins she is the heir apparent.  I could live with Biden as president more than Harris.
Pastor Don Engebretson
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James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4254 on: November 01, 2020, 02:01:42 PM »
Trump poll numbers are unpredictable ...Trump supporters do not trust the fake news press ... but that is not a conservative saying that.

Michael Moore said Trump supporters' votes are 'always being undercounted' in polls

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8899687/amp/Dont-believe-polls-Michael-Moore-says-Trump-vote-undercounted.html

President Trump is in Dubuque Iowa now or soon.  Many of his rallies have been making powerful use of Jumbotrons ... Playing Biden’s own words ... very powerful.

https://m.youtube.com/user/rightsideradio is actually a live-stream link

Richard Johnson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4255 on: November 01, 2020, 02:19:46 PM »

   If a non-governmental agency decides not to publish something, that is not censorship.
 

I think it's actually called "freedom of the press," isn't it?
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4256 on: November 01, 2020, 02:26:53 PM »
   If a non-governmental agency decides not to publish something, that is not censorship.
I think it's actually called "freedom of the press," isn't it?
Yes .... “freedom” is definitely desired ... of the press is questionable .... is the press to fairly and equitably to report all the facts or are is the press to be involved in shaping the news ... thus becoming the news rather than simply reporting it?

Norman Teigen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4257 on: November 01, 2020, 03:08:17 PM »
Well, I am going to try this again.   Voting Guides.  I ridiculed the idea of comparing ELCA and LCMS statements as foolish and expressed myself  in an unexpected and socially disagreeable fashion. I accept the discipline of the Forum Moderators in removing my comments.  I will try to do better.

This is the first of four posts on this subject.    #1 of 4

1.  USCCB (Catholic).  1.  May we be guided by our Catholic faith.  2.May our Blessed Mother guide us in confronting racial inequalities and restoring peace in our communities.   3.May all Americans recall the necessity of dialogue and civility. 4.  my printer distorted this page.   5. May voters & elected leaders uphold the dignity of every human life int heir political engagements.  6.  May Catholics recall all aspects of Catholic Social Teaching as they consider their votes.   7.May there be a transformation of politics to focus on the dignity of the human person and the common good.    8.May we keep in mind the gift of religious freedom and our duty to defend and exercise it as faithful citizens.9.  May we understand and embrace the principles of our Fath that should guide our political engagement.  10.  May the leaders elected this week be guided by the Holy Spirit as they fulfill their positions.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 03:50:16 PM by Norman Teigen »
Norman Teigen

Norman Teigen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4258 on: November 01, 2020, 03:14:41 PM »
#2 of 4

Methodist.  The Methodist statement was developed gy Faith in Public and Life and Interfaith Power and Light.  The issues:   1. Democracy and Voting Rights. 2.  Protecting God's Creation:  Climate Justice for ou4 Children and World.  3.  Loving our Immigrant Neighbors.  4.  The Last Shall be First:  An Economy of Inclusion.
 5.  Moral Health Policies in a Time of Pandemic. 6.  Restorative and Racial Justice.  7.  Made in the Image of God:  Respecting the Dignity of LGBTC People.   8.  The Global Common Good:  We're All in this Together
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 05:37:59 PM by Norman Teigen »
Norman Teigen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4259 on: November 01, 2020, 03:23:06 PM »
#3 of 4.  Voting Guides.  ELCA. "Is the neighbor being served?"

This is not a voting guide.  The ELCA calls its document "Discipleship in a Democracy."   Examples of engagement: 1.  Informed and regular voting.  2.  Participation in government efforts such as the census. 3.  Attending public meeting  4. Public service as a government employee or in public office.  5.  Involvement with political parties and campaigns.  6.  Advocacy about particular issues.   7.  Volunteering for public service organizations.  8.  Community organizing for social change.  8.  Nonviolent protest. 


Norman Teigen