Author Topic: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches  (Read 5655 times)

James S. Rustad

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2020, 06:15:32 PM »
Burdensome to whom? It is an interesting angle. When restaurants, bars, movie palaces, theaters, sports arenas, and shopping malls shut down, it is most burdensome to the economy and to the tens of thousands of people who work in those places. Those who make regulations and decisions have to have this in mind as they decide what should be done.
On the other hand, if churches must restrict the numbers of people attending their services for a period of time, who is burdened?
The guy defended by so many people here keeps stressing “ the economy, the economy, the economy” and says “we got to get things opened up.” And in his mind and the mind of the people around him doing his bidding, churches don’t do a darn thing for the economy.
I wonder how the fact that he has played golf on 20% of the days he has been in office helped the economy.
Forbes magazine has estimated that the presidents golfing trips cost the taxpayer $142 million.

Please stop injecting your TDS into discussions that have nothing to do with Trump.  He lost and will soon be gone.  Quit complaining about him.

Charles Austin

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2020, 06:36:00 PM »
The issue is the kind of restrictions that have been applied and to what ultimate end. That is definitely about him.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2020, 06:45:06 PM »
Burdensome to whom? It is an interesting angle. When restaurants, bars, movie palaces, theaters, sports arenas, and shopping malls shut down, it is most burdensome to the economy and to the tens of thousands of people who work in those places. Those who make regulations and decisions have to have this in mind as they decide what should be done.
On the other hand, if churches must restrict the numbers of people attending their services for a period of time, who is burdened?
The guy defended by so many people here keeps stressing “ the economy, the economy, the economy” and says “we got to get things opened up.” And in his mind and the mind of the people around him doing his bidding, churches don’t do a darn thing for the economy.
I wonder how the fact that he has played golf on 20% of the days he has been in office helped the economy.
Forbes magazine has estimated that the presidents golfing trips cost the taxpayer $142 million.
It is interesting to find out that when imposing restrictions on worship services and possibly closing churches Gov. Cuomo and Gavin and various Mayors simply were following what Trump said.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

James S. Rustad

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2020, 06:48:53 PM »
The issue is the kind of restrictions that have been applied and to what ultimate end. That is definitely about him.

Please point to the portion of the constitution that authorizes the President to impose restrictions, such as a mask order.  The states have the authority to decide what restrictions need to be imposed.  The President does not.  Even Joe Biden agrees that the President simply does not have that authority.  Quit making everything be about Trump.


D. Engebretson

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2020, 07:20:25 PM »
Once Biden takes the reigns of power, I wonder how long we have to wait before we stop blaming Trump and simply hold the new occupant responsible? Or will Trump always be the one to blame for what is wrong with government? Is there a reason why we can't hold the Democratic congress responsible for some things, such as being at least partly responsible for holding up a COVID aid package?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Dan Fienen

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2020, 09:27:08 PM »
Burdensome to whom? It is an interesting angle. When restaurants, bars, movie palaces, theaters, sports arenas, and shopping malls shut down, it is most burdensome to the economy and to the tens of thousands of people who work in those places. Those who make regulations and decisions have to have this in mind as they decide what should be done.
On the other hand, if churches must restrict the numbers of people attending their services for a period of time, who is burdened?
The guy defended by so many people here keeps stressing “ the economy, the economy, the economy” and says “we got to get things opened up.” And in his mind and the mind of the people around him doing his bidding, churches don’t do a darn thing for the economy.
I wonder how the fact that he has played golf on 20% of the days he has been in office helped the economy.
Forbes magazine has estimated that the presidents golfing trips cost the taxpayer $142 million.
Earlier this year it was burdensome to me when we did not hold in person worship for several months and my ability to personally take care of shutins was curtailed and I conducted worship in an empty church in front of a camera. My people would also tell you that it was a burden. It is still a burden to conduct worship and church activities in accordance with "recommended" practices. We do so out of respect for those in authority and because they seem reasonable precautions in these times. But don't tell me they aren't a burden. They seem necessary and we take them willingly, but still a burden. Can you say that your religious life hasn't been burdened by Covid restrictions?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Charles Austin

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2020, 09:48:21 PM »
Pastor Fienen, please pay attention. I’m not talking about a burden upon us, obviously the restrictions are a painful burden upon us. I am pointing out that in the minds of the ones at the top of our authority chain and making decisions, the burden on the economy is a gazillion times greater and more important to them than any burden upon you and I and our little churches. In the name of Aunt Gertie’s Goat, if he thought putting restrictions on the churches would help the economy, he wouldn’t hesitate for a second to do that.
At that point it is good that he does not have the authority to order things nationally. We are much better off with the governors who understand the situation in our states, except of course, for those who are made members of the Trump cult.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #112 on: November 30, 2020, 09:52:38 PM »
Pastor Fienen, please pay attention. I’m not talking about a burden upon us, obviously the restrictions are a painful burden upon us. I am pointing out that in the minds of the ones at the top of our authority chain and making decisions, the burden on the economy is a gazillion times greater and more important to them than any burden upon you and I and our little churches. In the name of Aunt Gertie’s Goat, if he thought putting restrictions on the churches would help the economy, he wouldn’t hesitate for a second to do that.
At that point it is good that he does not have the authority to order things nationally. We are much better off with the governors who understand the situation in our states, except of course, for those who are made members of the Trump cult.
You are the only one in this forum displaying symptoms of cult behavior in your obsession with Trump. The people who support him support him as a politician whose policies they prefer. You treat him as an embodiment of evil who haunts your dreams and waking hours.

Charles Austin

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2020, 10:01:26 PM »
You don’t think his “great lie” tactics of the past three weeks are damaging to our democracy. His actual efforts to get Republican leaders in the states to nullify the voting if it is against him?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2020, 10:07:58 PM »
You don’t think his “great lie” tactics of the past three weeks are damaging to our democracy. His actual efforts to get Republican leaders in the states to nullify the voting if it is against him?
I actually think your side is engaged in the great lie tactic by insisting the election is over and reacting with venom to anyone who simply wants to let it play out. Currently enough ballots are disputed in enough states to have swayed the election. More potential harm is done to people’s faith in elections by shushing anyone with questions than is done by carefully investigating with full transparency.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2020, 10:22:27 PM »

It is interesting to find out that when imposing restrictions on worship services and possibly closing churches Gov. Cuomo and Gavin and various Mayors simply were following what Trump said.

That's Gov. Newsom. Unless you are on a first-name basis with him.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Dan Fienen

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2020, 11:25:23 PM »

It is interesting to find out that when imposing restrictions on worship services and possibly closing churches Gov. Cuomo and Gavin and various Mayors simply were following what Trump said.

That's Gov. Newsom. Unless you are on a first-name basis with him.
Sorry, operating from memory, always dangerous to do.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2020, 11:30:07 PM »
Pastor Fienen, please pay attention. I’m not talking about a burden upon us, obviously the restrictions are a painful burden upon us. I am pointing out that in the minds of the ones at the top of our authority chain and making decisions, the burden on the economy is a gazillion times greater and more important to them than any burden upon you and I and our little churches. In the name of Aunt Gertie’s Goat, if he thought putting restrictions on the churches would help the economy, he wouldn’t hesitate for a second to do that.
At that point it is good that he does not have the authority to order things nationally. We are much better off with the governors who understand the situation in our states, except of course, for those who are made members of the Trump cult.
Sorry, I thought that you were possibly responding to what I posted where I mentioned people's free exercise of religion being burdened. Obviously you were,talking about something else. I you won't use the quote function, could you at least give a hint about what a post is in reference to?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #118 on: December 01, 2020, 01:55:01 AM »
You don’t think his “great lie” tactics of the past three weeks are damaging to our democracy. His actual efforts to get Republican leaders in the states to nullify the voting if it is against him?
I actually think your side is engaged in the great lie tactic by insisting the election is over and reacting with venom to anyone who simply wants to let it play out. Currently enough ballots are disputed in enough states to have swayed the election. More potential harm is done to people’s faith in elections by shushing anyone with questions than is done by carefully investigating with full transparency.


From what I've heard, only you and President Trump seems to think that there are enough disputed ballots to have swayed the election. The people actually responsible for counting ballots and assuring the public of a fair election state that this was the most secure election ever. There is no dispute about the outcome.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

David Garner

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Re: Recent Surpreme Court Decision Concerning Churches
« Reply #119 on: December 01, 2020, 07:46:07 AM »
Spiritual burdens don’t matter to those currently calling the shots from the oval office.

I thought you were refusing to look backwards?

But thanks for running a highlighter over the fact that this is all just partisan nonsense.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).