Poll

Did "Obamacare" cause you to change doctors and/or insurance companies?

I kept my doctor(s) and insurance company.
12 (52.2%)
I had to change my doctor(s), but kept my insurance company.
2 (8.7%)
I kept my doctor(s), but had to change insurance company.
4 (17.4%)
I had to change my doctor(s) and had to change insurance companies.
5 (21.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance  (Read 2803 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« on: September 12, 2020, 08:39:44 PM »
The claim has been made that Obamacare, contrary to then President Obama, forced people to change doctors and insurance companies. I'm wondering how many in this forum had to change (or not) because of this program.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Julio

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 08:53:58 PM »
The claim has been made that Obamacare, contrary to then President Obama, forced people to change doctors and insurance companies. I'm wondering how many in this forum had to change (or not) because of this program.
Because the pool of poll responders is highly limited and greatly skewed toward professional church workers, the results of this pole will be totally bogus.

Please preserve the decorum of this forum and do not participate in the bogus poll.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 10:37:24 PM by Julio »

peter_speckhard

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 09:08:08 PM »
I and 125,000 of my closest friends lost their health coverage due to Obamacare, and Joe Biden personally bashed our knees with a bat while we cried out, “Why?”

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2020, 09:56:04 PM »
I and 125,000 of my closest friends lost their health coverage due to Obamacare, and Joe Biden personally bashed our knees with a bat while we cried out, “Why?”


Our son went a couple of years without work. He was able to get health insurance through Obamacare in our state. Otherwise he had nothing. How many thousands were like him and able to have coverage because of this program?


In a perfect world, everyone would have health coverage. Everyone could choose their own doctor. We live in a world of compromises where many people are not able to get everything that they want.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

James_Gale

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2020, 10:06:00 PM »
My insurer in DC exited the market, citing the ACA. I got other insurance for about $3000 more a year and with higher copays, a higher deductible, and a smaller physician network.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2020, 10:25:21 PM »
I and 125,000 of my closest friends lost their health coverage due to Obamacare, and Joe Biden personally bashed our knees with a bat while we cried out, “Why?”


Our son went a couple of years without work. He was able to get health insurance through Obamacare in our state. Otherwise he had nothing. How many thousands were like him and able to have coverage because of this program?


In a perfect world, everyone would have health coverage. Everyone could choose their own doctor. We live in a world of compromises where many people are not able to get everything that they want.
Which has precisely zero to do with whether or not it was true that if you liked your plan you could keep it.

Commencement2020

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2020, 10:59:58 PM »
The difference between now and back then is the balance of power. It was a problem before, but it has gotten worse. Medical professionals are more empowered than they used to be because if individuals are paying they answer to individuals, but if the government is paying they have quasi-police authority.

All five of the following have happened in recent years, anecdotal though it be I can vouch for them via my offline experiences and relationships.

Bringing your child in for a well-child checkup, and you are talked down to, so the nurse feels big and in charge and you are to feel small. The nurse enjoys casing your child for information that could lead to a social services complaint.

Go in for an OB visit, and the physician becomes prejudicial after learning your values are socially conservative.

Giving birth at a hospital, and your baby is taken under dubious circumstances. You jump through the hoops and care for your baby at a holding facility, but after one year, your baby is adopted out anyway.

At a nursing home, and the nurse decides to murder you, and does, in front of your own relatives while they visit. Relative who complains is laughed at by police, given the run-around by the coroner, and told by the dearly departed's personal doctor that "my insurance won't cover it" if he goes to police (and is sued by the accused).

A homeless Vietnam veteran very obviously has a hernia and is in serious pain, totally unmedicated. He is told that the government will pay for everything, but will not seek care anyway. Should he seek medical care he could be put into a home against his will.

Maybe you are one of those people who need hard figures. If so, there are three things you can do yourself:

Look at your local county or municipal social services department figures, such as those available on state health department dashboards or in county board committee minutes. In many areas, child protective services and adult protective services complaints are much higher than two decades ago. In some places somewhere around half of newborns and most elderly can expect a complaint to be made concerning them sometime in their childhood or elderhood.

Also, look for local statistics for children coercively medicated by the local government; compare with previous years. In some places these figures have risen a great deal. This is closely related to the massive expansion in child protective services activity.

Double-check for coronavirus-related effects; the shutdown of senior centers and in-person meal opportunities has led to a massive drop in Adult Protective Services activity in some areas.


To avoid exposing their church to civil liability under slander law, pastors must pretend that the deaths of their congregation members are natural even though they have suspicions or even absolutely know otherwise. How to deal with the moral strain of having your congregation members murdered at the nursing home where you visit should be taught in seminary. This could help prevent them from becoming cynical about their congregation members in nursing homes.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 11:10:43 PM by Commencement2020 »

Rob Morris

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2020, 11:39:06 PM »
The poll is odd - it assumes that if you didn't change insurance companies, then you "kept your insurance." That lacks a bit of sophistication.

I kept my insurance carrier, but my family and I had to completely change our coverage, as the plan I previously subscribed to skyrocketed in price. I now live in a maze of HSAs and HDHPs. Even with a business degree and multiple finance and accounting classes, tracking the payments is a Byzantine rat maze.

Meanwhile, thank God I have a lifelong insurance industry exec as one of my elders. Every year, he helps explain the insurance changes and what will be most affordable to the congregation without it amounting to a pay cut for me. (And BTW - thank God for CPS's tireless efforts to figure out the way to still deliver top-quality care without spiking prices.)

I have the same doctors and I have the same insurance carrier. But I do not have the same insurance plan, and the newest development is that suddenly I am getting doctors at major institutions telling me or my family members they don't accept my insurance. That never happened with BCBS before. Hoping it isn't a sign of things to come...

The insurance situation in America needed to be improved. Not sure that in the case of Obamacare, the cure is any better than the disease.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2020, 03:16:14 AM »
The insurance situation in America needed to be improved. Not sure that in the case of Obamacare, the cure is any better than the disease.


Obamacare was not meant to be the final solution. The expectation was that when its shortcomings were revealed congress would take steps to make it better. That hasn't happened. "Repeal and replace" was a slogan; but there has never been a replacement plan. Lest people forget, Obamacare was based on Romneycare - a Republican plan in effect in Massachusetts.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2020, 03:20:04 AM »
The difference between now and back then is the balance of power. It was a problem before, but it has gotten worse. Medical professionals are more empowered than they used to be because if individuals are paying they answer to individuals, but if the government is paying they have quasi-police authority.


The government has been paying for the elderly since 1966 when medicare began. So, when is the "back then" that you are talking about?


"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Jeremy_Loesch

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2020, 07:03:10 AM »
The poll is odd - it assumes that if you didn't change insurance companies, then you "kept your insurance." That lacks a bit of sophistication.

I kept my insurance carrier, but my family and I had to completely change our coverage, as the plan I previously subscribed to skyrocketed in price. I now live in a maze of HSAs and HDHPs. Even with a business degree and multiple finance and accounting classes, tracking the payments is a Byzantine rat maze.

Meanwhile, thank God I have a lifelong insurance industry exec as one of my elders. Every year, he helps explain the insurance changes and what will be most affordable to the congregation without it amounting to a pay cut for me. (And BTW - thank God for CPS's tireless efforts to figure out the way to still deliver top-quality care without spiking prices.)

I have the same doctors and I have the same insurance carrier. But I do not have the same insurance plan, and the newest development is that suddenly I am getting doctors at major institutions telling me or my family members they don't accept my insurance. That never happened with BCBS before. Hoping it isn't a sign of things to come...

The insurance situation in America needed to be improved. Not sure that in the case of Obamacare, the cure is any better than the disease.

Absolutely true. Figuring out the coverage changes, network changes, doctor changes has become much, much harder.

First question when there is a medical issue- "Will they take our insurance?"  Second question- "Have we met our deductible?

Jeremy

GalRevRedux

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2020, 07:08:24 AM »
The insurance situation in America needed to be improved. Not sure that in the case of Obamacare, the cure is any better than the disease.


Obamacare was not meant to be the final solution.

“Final solution?”

Freudian slip?

 ::)
A pastor of the North American Lutheran Church.

Rob Morris

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2020, 07:55:47 AM »
Lest people forget, Obamacare was based on Romneycare - a Republican plan in effect in Massachusetts.

I didn’t forget. I lived in Massachusetts when Romney was governor. My first son was born while my wife and then he were covered by Mass Health, the health program that was approved while Romney was governor.

A few things with that: one, just like no one in Boston ever calls it “Beantown”, no one in Massachusetts at that time ever called it “Romneycare“. I never heard that name until it came along as part of the Obamacare debate. Just so you know. Two, while Romney was indeed a Republican governor, I don’t think it would be entirely accurate to call Mass Health a Republican plan, given how heavily Democratic the legislature was. Three, unless the point of this thread was to defend Democratic versus Republican approaches, then Mass Health isn’t all that relevant to the poll.

Randy Bosch

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2020, 09:52:50 AM »
The government has been paying for the elderly since 1966 when medicare began. So, when is the "back then" that you are talking about?

Paying with the Medicare deductions from everyone's paycheck plus other tax monies collected from the entire taxpaying population.
The government is managing - collecting and assigning - those funds. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Poll: Change of doctors or insurance
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2020, 10:15:05 AM »
Yes. Taxes and legislated social services are other ways in which we care for the needs of our neighbors. Last I heard, that was a Christian thing to do.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Say what you will about polls, but all current polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the things I have been saying in this modest form.