Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 195465 times)

mariemeyer

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2865 on: November 30, 2020, 03:25:16 PM »
What I'm curious about--and I'm not sure any of you really know, but maybe--is who determines what vaccines get distributed to whom or where?

The Texas state health department has already published its priorities:
  • Healthcare personnel likely to be exposed to or treat people with COVID-19.
  • People at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19, including those with underlying medical conditions and people 65 years of age and older (Residents of long term care facilities are first on this list.)
  • Other vulnerable, frontline workers

You have misread my question. Which of the three (or is it four now?) vaccines get given to whom, or distributed to where? I'm not asking what people get it first, I'm asking what vaccine they get.


Probably the first one available in their area. I don't plan to be picky. I know that I don't quiz my dr about who manufactured the flue shot that I receive.

We have a chimney sweep who takes care of our flue shot.

First laugh (chuckle) of the day.  Thanks!

Marie Meyer

JEdwards

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2866 on: November 30, 2020, 04:00:33 PM »
FDA approval for one or more of the Covid-19 vaccines that have been developed are only days if not hours away. (As I write this, Monday, Nov. 30, morning.) One concern being expressed is whether people will actually get the vaccine. Estimates I've heard and read are as high as 40% of Americans would refuse to be vaccinated. Some of that may be the general distrust of some of vaccines. The anti-vaxxer movement has raised paranoia concerning vaccines, all vaccines and is a public health concern.


But there has been addition anti-vaccine sentiment raised against the Covid-19 vaccine that has been politically driven. This anti-vaccine meme was fostered by the general anti-Trump, "Orange man bad," meme. If Trump is involved, or if Trump is pushing it, whatever "it" is, it must be bad. Thus since Trump has pushed for the rapid development of the vaccine and desired the vaccine to be ready for use before the election (presumably to help his reelection prospects) the vaccines developed cannot be safe since obviously Trump short circuited the proper testing of the vaccines. Therefore we cannot trust them.


That has been simply playing politics with public health. Does anyone have any hard evidence that the testing of these vaccines has been substandard, or that they are being rushed to general use before they have been properly tested? If anything, the news reports on the testing has demonstrated that the proper caution and testing has been followed, at time delaying certain vaccines because a possible problem cropped up that needed to be further examined.


If Trump were to have used his power to push through the vaccines without adequate testing for political gain, he failed. Only now, nearly a month after election day are the vaccines up for approval. Even if he had tried to rush inadequately tested vaccines through, and please, could we see the evidence of that chicanery, it didn't work.


The vaccines up for approval are showing a better than 90% effectiveness. Those who are vaccinated will be generally safe from Covid-19 and for them the vaccination will be a success. But if the vaccines are to be effective in ending the pandemic and reducing Covid-19 to a seasonal annoyance like the flu, they will need to be generally used by a large percentage of the population. Distrust of the vaccines as an expression of dislike for Trump and anything he had anything to do with may prolong the pandemic even after he leaves office.
I had a conversation about this with a nurse in my office today.  As a physician who cares for hospitalized patients (although generally not for COVID patients), I anticipate being vaccinated in the next 4-6 weeks.  I will, of course, want to read the scientific reports of the trials before making a final decision, but what has been publicly reported is very promising.  I'm eager to be vaccinated not only because I anticipate that it will protect me, but also to give credibility to my recommendations to my patients.  I think there are several talking points that may help allay some suspicions about the rapidity of the process.

-Both the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines use mRNA technology.  While it is true that this is a new technology requiring careful scrutiny for safety, the nature of the process permits  much faster production, because the time-consuming process of viral culture can be bypassed.

-Because the government assumed much of the financial risk, steps that ordinarily are conducted in sequence could be conducted in parallel.  Setting up a phase 3 trial requires a huge investment, and drug companies generally would not make such an investment until having final results of a phase 2 trial.  Thus the risk in this case was a financial risk, not a safety risk associated with skipping steps in the process.

-Ironically, the rapidity with which the phase 3 trials were conducted was due in large measure to the high rates of disease across the country.  The effectiveness of a vaccine is demonstrated by showing a convincing reduction in disease in the vaccinated group compared to the control group, something that cannot be demonstrated until enough people in the control group get sick.  The high rates of disease during the trial meant that this unfortunate but necessary benchmark was reached relatively quickly.

Again, I still want to see the final, peer-reviewed reports, but I am very optimistic.

Peace,
Jon

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2867 on: November 30, 2020, 04:13:25 PM »
Let’s watch the statistics about attitudes towards vaccinations carefully. I’m not sure what we think we know now is accurate.
And I think we need to know what the attitudes about vaccination are towards this particular situation, before we understand what is likely to happen. Furthermore, if our marketing geniuses can get us to buy some of the crap that we buy by the tens of thousands, spending millions of dollars, surely they can encourage us to take a free shot which is likely to save our lives and the lives of our neighbors.
As for the attitudes towards something that the man in the White House is promoting, I don’t think that matters. I’m not listening  to him about the vaccine. He would hardly  be my final authority on the vaccine.
I will listen to the scientists, the epidemiologists, and people whom I know are knowledgeable about the field and people whom I can can respect.
If they tell  me the vaccination is safe enough to take (which does not mean it is 190% safe, because nothing is) I will lineup for the shots.
I wouldn’t take advice on buying socks from anyone who spouts the lies that the sad man in the White House has been saying these past three weeks.
And BTW, if he says he needs some credit for the vaccine, I might go so far as to figuratively pat him on his little hand, smile insincerely  and say “yes, Donnie, you did it. Good boy. Now pick up your toys and leave.”
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2868 on: November 30, 2020, 06:36:00 PM »
Let’s watch the statistics about attitudes towards vaccinations carefully. I’m not sure what we think we know now is accurate.
And I think we need to know what the attitudes about vaccination are towards this particular situation, before we understand what is likely to happen. Furthermore, if our marketing geniuses can get us to buy some of the crap that we buy by the tens of thousands, spending millions of dollars, surely they can encourage us to take a free shot which is likely to save our lives and the lives of our neighbors.
As for the attitudes towards something that the man in the White House is promoting, I don’t think that matters. I’m not listening  to him about the vaccine. He would hardly  be my final authority on the vaccine.
I will listen to the scientists, the epidemiologists, and people whom I know are knowledgeable about the field and people whom I can can respect.
If they tell  me the vaccination is safe enough to take (which does not mean it is 190% safe, because nothing is) I will lineup for the shots.
I wouldn’t take advice on buying socks from anyone who spouts the lies that the sad man in the White House has been saying these past three weeks.
And BTW, if he says he needs some credit for the vaccine, I might go so far as to figuratively pat him on his little hand, smile insincerely  and say “yes, Donnie, you did it. Good boy. Now pick up your toys and leave.”
Your snide remarks notwithstanding, your personal attitude towards the vaccines or Trump matter very little. What matters more is what the opinion trend setters have been saying about a vaccine developed by theTrump administration. That you personally are more reasonable doesn’t change much. I certainly wouldn't try to get you to actually give Trump credit for anything good without condescension or snark because I would hate to cause you a heart attack from the stress of checking on your words.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2869 on: November 30, 2020, 06:41:14 PM »
Let’s watch the statistics about attitudes towards vaccinations carefully. I’m not sure what we think we know now is accurate.
And I think we need to know what the attitudes about vaccination are towards this particular situation, before we understand what is likely to happen. Furthermore, if our marketing geniuses can get us to buy some of the crap that we buy by the tens of thousands, spending millions of dollars, surely they can encourage us to take a free shot which is likely to save our lives and the lives of our neighbors.
As for the attitudes towards something that the man in the White House is promoting, I don’t think that matters. I’m not listening  to him about the vaccine. He would hardly  be my final authority on the vaccine.
I will listen to the scientists, the epidemiologists, and people whom I know are knowledgeable about the field and people whom I can can respect.
If they tell  me the vaccination is safe enough to take (which does not mean it is 190% safe, because nothing is) I will lineup for the shots.
I wouldn’t take advice on buying socks from anyone who spouts the lies that the sad man in the White House has been saying these past three weeks.
And BTW, if he says he needs some credit for the vaccine, I might go so far as to figuratively pat him on his little hand, smile insincerely  and say “yes, Donnie, you did it. Good boy. Now pick up your toys and leave.”
Your snide remarks notwithstanding, your personal attitude towards the vaccines or Trump matter very little. What matters more is what the opinion trend setters have been saying about a vaccine developed by theTrump administration. That you personally are more reasonable doesn’t change much. I certainly wouldn't try to get you to actually give Trump credit for anything good without condescension or snark because I would hate to cause you a heart attack from the stress of checking on your words.


Trump helped the drug companies by providing government money -- sort of the opposite of a "free market" system and more like the dreaded socialism.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2870 on: November 30, 2020, 06:55:42 PM »
Trump helped the drug companies by providing government money -- sort of the opposite of a "free market" system and more like the dreaded socialism.

He also helped speed the development process by streamlining the regulatory process -- more like a free market system would operate.  'Course, some think this makes the resulting vaccines dangerous and unsafe.

DeHall1

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2871 on: November 30, 2020, 07:03:01 PM »
Let’s watch the statistics about attitudes towards vaccinations carefully. I’m not sure what we think we know now is accurate.
And I think we need to know what the attitudes about vaccination are towards this particular situation, before we understand what is likely to happen. Furthermore, if our marketing geniuses can get us to buy some of the crap that we buy by the tens of thousands, spending millions of dollars, surely they can encourage us to take a free shot which is likely to save our lives and the lives of our neighbors.
As for the attitudes towards something that the man in the White House is promoting, I don’t think that matters. I’m not listening  to him about the vaccine. He would hardly  be my final authority on the vaccine.
I will listen to the scientists, the epidemiologists, and people whom I know are knowledgeable about the field and people whom I can can respect.
If they tell  me the vaccination is safe enough to take (which does not mean it is 190% safe, because nothing is) I will lineup for the shots.
I wouldn’t take advice on buying socks from anyone who spouts the lies that the sad man in the White House has been saying these past three weeks.
And BTW, if he says he needs some credit for the vaccine, I might go so far as to figuratively pat him on his little hand, smile insincerely  and say “yes, Donnie, you did it. Good boy. Now pick up your toys and leave.”
Your snide remarks notwithstanding, your personal attitude towards the vaccines or Trump matter very little. What matters more is what the opinion trend setters have been saying about a vaccine developed by theTrump administration. That you personally are more reasonable doesn’t change much. I certainly wouldn't try to get you to actually give Trump credit for anything good without condescension or snark because I would hate to cause you a heart attack from the stress of checking on your words.


Trump helped the drug companies by providing government money -- sort of the opposite of a "free market" system and more like the dreaded socialism.

With Pfizer's new vaccine, under the current "Operation Warp Speed" arrangement, the federal government would obtain 100 million doses for $1.95 billion (about $20 a dose) with the rights to acquire up to 500 million more, or 600 million total. Americans would receive the vaccine for free. Before it could be distributed, it would need emergency approval by the Food and Drug Administration.

The U.S. government does not pay the nearly $2 billion until the drug is approved and the first 100 million doses are delivered.

Pfizer did not accept Biomedical Advanced Research and Development funding for the research and development process. All the investment for R&D was made by Pfizer at risk.

That sounds pretty "free market" to me.  YMMV.

Pfizer's partner, BioNTech, DID receive significant government funding.....From the German government.   I can't seem to find anything that states that President Trump was involved in that decision, however.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 07:10:40 PM by DeHall1 »

Randy Bosch

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2872 on: November 30, 2020, 07:43:58 PM »
Let’s watch the statistics about attitudes towards vaccinations carefully. I’m not sure what we think we know now is accurate.
And I think we need to know what the attitudes about vaccination are towards this particular situation, before we understand what is likely to happen. Furthermore, if our marketing geniuses can get us to buy some of the crap that we buy by the tens of thousands, spending millions of dollars, surely they can encourage us to take a free shot which is likely to save our lives and the lives of our neighbors.
As for the attitudes towards something that the man in the White House is promoting, I don’t think that matters. I’m not listening  to him about the vaccine. He would hardly  be my final authority on the vaccine.
I will listen to the scientists, the epidemiologists, and people whom I know are knowledgeable about the field and people whom I can can respect.
If they tell  me the vaccination is safe enough to take (which does not mean it is 190% safe, because nothing is) I will lineup for the shots.
I wouldn’t take advice on buying socks from anyone who spouts the lies that the sad man in the White House has been saying these past three weeks.
And BTW, if he says he needs some credit for the vaccine, I might go so far as to figuratively pat him on his little hand, smile insincerely  and say “yes, Donnie, you did it. Good boy. Now pick up your toys and leave.”
Your snide remarks notwithstanding, your personal attitude towards the vaccines or Trump matter very little. What matters more is what the opinion trend setters have been saying about a vaccine developed by theTrump administration. That you personally are more reasonable doesn’t change much. I certainly wouldn't try to get you to actually give Trump credit for anything good without condescension or snark because I would hate to cause you a heart attack from the stress of checking on your words.


Trump helped the drug companies by providing government money -- sort of the opposite of a "free market" system and more like the dreaded socialism.

So Biden/Obama's helping the arms companies by providing government money to manufacture more and more of the drones used to wage war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and many other places as part of dreaded socialism?  Who knew?

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2873 on: December 01, 2020, 11:13:42 AM »
Every American will be able to get a COVID vaccine by the end of June 2021, Operation Warp Speed director of supply says


Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2874 on: December 01, 2020, 12:15:27 PM »
Let’s watch the statistics about attitudes towards vaccinations carefully. I’m not sure what we think we know now is accurate.
And I think we need to know what the attitudes about vaccination are towards this particular situation, before we understand what is likely to happen. Furthermore, if our marketing geniuses can get us to buy some of the crap that we buy by the tens of thousands, spending millions of dollars, surely they can encourage us to take a free shot which is likely to save our lives and the lives of our neighbors.
As for the attitudes towards something that the man in the White House is promoting, I don’t think that matters. I’m not listening  to him about the vaccine. He would hardly  be my final authority on the vaccine.
I will listen to the scientists, the epidemiologists, and people whom I know are knowledgeable about the field and people whom I can can respect.
If they tell  me the vaccination is safe enough to take (which does not mean it is 190% safe, because nothing is) I will lineup for the shots.
I wouldn’t take advice on buying socks from anyone who spouts the lies that the sad man in the White House has been saying these past three weeks.
And BTW, if he says he needs some credit for the vaccine, I might go so far as to figuratively pat him on his little hand, smile insincerely  and say “yes, Donnie, you did it. Good boy. Now pick up your toys and leave.”
Your snide remarks notwithstanding, your personal attitude towards the vaccines or Trump matter very little. What matters more is what the opinion trend setters have been saying about a vaccine developed by theTrump administration. That you personally are more reasonable doesn’t change much. I certainly wouldn't try to get you to actually give Trump credit for anything good without condescension or snark because I would hate to cause you a heart attack from the stress of checking on your words.


Trump helped the drug companies by providing government money -- sort of the opposite of a "free market" system and more like the dreaded socialism.

So Biden/Obama's helping the arms companies by providing government money to manufacture more and more of the drones used to wage war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and many other places as part of dreaded socialism?  Who knew?


Most everyone who posts that our federal support of the military is socialism. It is spending money for the common good (or the good of society - where "social" comes from), rather than investing money to make bigger profits.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Randy Bosch

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2875 on: December 01, 2020, 12:33:49 PM »
Most everyone who posts that our federal support of the military is socialism. It is spending money for the common good (or the good of society - where "social" comes from), rather than investing money to make bigger profits.

Not in the sense of how Socialism is understood and practiced today.
Your church's social potluck (prior to potlucks  being deemed to COVID "superspreaders" because church members are not sanitary, or something...)  by your definition is "socialism".  Not the same thing, but you know that.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2876 on: December 02, 2020, 10:13:00 AM »
Finally finished The Great Influenza - The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History by John M. Barry. Took me weeks of picking it up and putting it down in between everything else.  Over 460 pages and a lot of technical material on medicine and science, so it's not a quick read.  Barry said it took him 7 years to write the book, and he has revised it from 2004 to as recently as 2018.  The Afterword at the very end is surprisingly prophetic as he outlines what he believes would be the impact of another pandemic.  For the most part he nailed it.  It is amazing, in some ways, how influenza continues to be one of the great medical struggles of every generation.  After a hundred years such viruses can still bring a country and the world to its knees.  Medical science was finally coming in to its own at the turn of the century just before the "Spanish Flu" hit, and many of award-winning scientists dedicated countless years of study to find the cause.  Yet even today vaccines, which are certainly more effective, can be a bit of a 'hit and miss' approach.   

It is interesting how the criticism of the Wilson administration that oversaw this time period was that they were not sufficiently candid and transparent about the impact of the pandemic, not to mention very slow in responding and not too eager to throw at it sufficient resources.  It is likewise fascinating how the media was very complicit in that approach of coloring reality in a way that deliberately downplayed the seriousness of the crisis.  Of course, WW I complicated our attention to the pandemic in a way we were spared this time around.  It also exacerbated it in a way we did not have to face.

A century later we often used many of the same basic approaches they did: masks, quarantine, lock-downs, etc. They also faced multiple waves of the virus and had different levels of impact.  Reading Barry's account reminded me that it could have been much, much worse.  Their horror and pain exceeded ours many times over. 

I highly recommend the book.  Sometimes it's good to go back in time to a similar experience and get a different perspective.  We are too much in the middle of it all right now.  This book allows a bit of objectivity in examining it in historic perspective.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2877 on: December 02, 2020, 11:21:50 AM »
Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine judged safe for use in UK from next week

DeHall1

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2878 on: December 02, 2020, 03:26:44 PM »

Most everyone who posts that our federal support of the military is socialism. It is spending money for the common good (or the good of society - where "social" comes from), rather than investing money to make bigger profits.

That's why privates get paid the same as generals.  The making, moving, and trading wealth is owned or controlled by the workers. Equal distribution and all that.   Yay, Socialism!

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #2879 on: December 02, 2020, 04:10:37 PM »

Most everyone who posts that our federal support of the military is socialism. It is spending money for the common good (or the good of society - where "social" comes from), rather than investing money to make bigger profits.

That's why privates get paid the same as generals.  The making, moving, and trading wealth is owned or controlled by the workers. Equal distribution and all that.   Yay, Socialism!


Who said that socialism is paying everybody the same? Socialism: the making, moving, and trading wealth is owned or controlled by society. Marxism was about the workers rebelling against unjust owners and taking control of businesses.


Things such as a society (in this case a small town) deciding to pave its roads and taxing all citizens in town to pay for it is a form of socialism. The same with community fire departments, water bureaus, police departments, etc.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]