Author Topic: Gun Control Issues and Clergy  (Read 8482 times)

Dan Fienen

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Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« on: August 15, 2014, 06:50:32 PM »
Personally I have little interest in rehashing the gun control arguments or whether clergy should even touch such unclean objects as guns.  But with a new thread open to talk about such items I thought that a thread to move those arguments about gun control here and let the other thread be enjoyed by those who enjoy shooting sports.

Dan
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2014, 07:07:43 PM »
Even though I have never owned any kind of firearm, I am not anti-gun. I think that "gun control" is a poor term. We need to control people. Some people should not be allowed to own guns. I don't have a list of criteria or know how we might limit gun ownership to only responsible people; but blaming guns for what some irresponsible and insane people have done is putting the blame on the wrong sylLAble.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

John Mundinger

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2014, 08:06:29 PM »
I knew an LCMS preacher who wore cowboy boots and packed heat under his cassock when standing in the pulpit.
Lifelong Evangelical Lutheran layman

Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet understand them as he ought.  St. Augustine

LutherMan

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 08:25:57 PM »
I knew an LCMS preacher who wore cowboy boots and packed heat under his cassock when standing in the pulpit.
That's how it should be.  We live in dangerous times...

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2014, 09:41:24 PM »
I'm in favor of gun control.

If you can't control your gun, you just won't hit anything.

 ;D


How much of that control is physical and how much mental? It seems to me that the tragedies were caused by guys who could control their guns, but not their minds. The members who I trust to have weapons during worship are one's I believe are in complete control of their mental abilities.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

John Mundinger

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 11:35:52 PM »
I knew an LCMS preacher who wore cowboy boots and packed heat under his cassock when standing in the pulpit.
That's how it should be.  We live in dangerous times...

It was western Colorado and in the '60's.  It had nothing to do with dangerous times and everything to do with his persona.
Lifelong Evangelical Lutheran layman

Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet understand them as he ought.  St. Augustine

J.L. Precup

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 12:05:14 AM »
I was a brand new chaplain on my first ship.  We were tied to the pier, and one morning a very senior officer came to speak with me.  His story sounded like a movie script:  his wife woke him the previous night and said she thought someone was in the house.  He took his pistol and walked downstairs.  Sure enough, there was someone in the house.  He chased them out the door yelling for the intruder to stop.  The intruder continued to run into the back yard by the garage.  The officer fired his weapon.

He reflected that he learned two things.  First, it's not a good idea to shoot a hole in your own boat parked by the garage.  Second, it's impossible to aim and defecate at the same time.

He was late to work that morning because he went first to a police station to turn in his weapon.
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

Charles Austin

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 09:20:13 AM »
So this thread really has nothing to do with gun-control, the way those words are normally used by ordinary people.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2014, 09:43:55 AM »
You should know by now that threads have a tendency to wander far from the original topic.  But participants can also try to bring them back on topic.  Doesn't always work but does sometimes.  What do you want to say about gun control?

Dan
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 10:03:14 AM »
This may be thread drift away from standard gun control issues, but some have expressed distaste for the idea that pastors should have anything to do with guns and shooting sports. Is it inappropriate for pastors to have anything to do with guns?  What about guns for target shooting (I would include skeet in this)?  How about hunting?  Obtaining a concealed carry permit?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2014, 11:11:00 AM »
I posted before I read your article.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2014, 08:42:27 PM »
This may be thread drift away from standard gun control issues, but some have expressed distaste for the idea that pastors should have anything to do with guns and shooting sports. Is it inappropriate for pastors to have anything to do with guns?  What about guns for target shooting (I would include skeet in this)?  How about hunting?  Obtaining a concealed carry permit?


I have no problems with folks or pastors owning such firearms and using them for such purposes. We had numerous members in Wyoming whose meat was the wild game they had shot: moose, elk, deer, antelope, occasionally bear. I do wonder about a weapon that is designed for mass-destruction - namely an automatic or semi-automatic rifle with a large magazine cartridge. A hunter will not fire 30 rounds into a deer.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2014, 09:15:15 PM »
If you honor the Second Amendment, you know it presumes the right to regulate, so why do you resist regulation? The second amendment is about a well-regulated militia. That is the subject of the amendment. Are you guys that? I don't think so.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

David Garner

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2014, 09:16:13 PM »
If you honor the Second Amendment, you know it presumes the right to regulate, so why do you resist regulation? The second amendment is about a well-regulated militia. That is the subject of the amendment. Are you guys that? I don't think so.

Since your claim that the Second Amendment is about a militia is neither historically nor legally accurate, we can dismiss the rest of what you have to say on the subject.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Charles Austin

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Re: Gun Control Issues and Clergy
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2014, 09:40:03 PM »
Stronger gun control laws now affect millions of Americans, but some states are still resisting controls desired by a majority of Americans.
22 laws in 11 states make it harder to own guns.
11 laws in 8 states make it easier to own guns.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/12/13/more-than-half-of-americans-now-have-tougher-gun-safety-laws/

If democracy works, we should be having more gun control laws, since a majority of our people favor stricter controls.  I have enough faith in democracy to believe that this will happen. I just hope we don't have to wait too long.


Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.