Author Topic: Resisting the deadly weapons culture  (Read 44161 times)

Charles_Austin

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Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« on: October 14, 2013, 09:23:41 AM »
So guns - all guns, and at times, the bigger the better - are deeply embedded in American culture.
   We're not talking hunting; we're talking military-style, tactical weapons, and the handguns known to spy novelists and assassins.
   We're talking the guns people want to hide on their persons so that if they meet up with one of the bazillion ravening wolves supposedly prowling our streets, they can whip it out and blast away.
   We're talking the guns you can "play with" at certain shooting ranges, if you want to (literally) burn up your money in ammunition.
   Should the church have anything to say? Should we wonder why the NRA, with probably fewer than 3 million members (their "official" numbers are notoriously suspect), has such an influence on lawmakers? Should we worry that the romanticizing of heavy-duty firepower fuels a deadly dark side of our members?
   Should we worry that our people, brainwashed with the idea that a gun makes you safe, buy into national policies dependent upon weapons and military force?
   Psalm 20 tells we should trust in God, not horses and chariots (and big guns), Jesus says more about laying down weapons than picking them up. The strong (but minority) witness of pacifist Christians is well within Christian orthodoxy.
   Should we worry? I do.



 

cnehring

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 09:46:39 AM »
Yup, that's right-all those gun-toting crazies out there are blowing people away constantly and consistently-with little prevocation needed. Don't you hear of all the bodies filling the streets in rural Wisconsin (where I live-in a state with conceal-carry laws)? Don't you see all the peace and love in those cities were gun laws are strict and in vast array?

swbohler

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »
Rev. Austin,

1) I know of no one with a concealed carry permit who wants to "whip out" a gun and "blast away".  In fact, the vast majority of the required training here in Minnesota (and, I assume, elsewhere) is on how to AVOID such a situation.  But if it does arise, are you claiming it is better to be shot than to shoot?  What about use of firearms to protect one's family (by protecting self, if nothing else)?  Or to protect other citizens?

2) I "play" and "burn money" at the shooting range.  You do it at the theater or driving to the beach (how much do those cost?).  How much of a wasteful and dangerous carbon footprint are you creating by these unnecessary activities?

3) Is shooting a sin?  If not, why should the Church say anything, unless it be to speak of the responsible use of firearms to protect our neighbor?

4) No one I know thinks having a gun makes one safe.  Safer, sure.  But not safe.

5) Yep, Psalm 20 does indeed say that.  And 2 Thessalonians 3:10 says: "For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."  So, using your example, I assume you are in favor of abolishing welfare programs now on the basis on that one verse.  And the Church's need to teach this.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 09:50:41 AM »
"Prevocation"? And I made no mention of "gun toting crazies. "

John Mundinger

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 09:51:44 AM »
We say that Fneither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.   Yet, some would rather put their trust in political powers and their own ability to handle a firearm.
Lifelong Evangelical Lutheran layman

Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet understand them as he ought.  St. Augustine

John Mundinger

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 09:57:02 AM »
How might the world be different if Christians were to follow Elisha's example?  cf. 2Kings 6:8-23
Lifelong Evangelical Lutheran layman

Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet understand them as he ought.  St. Augustine

Charles_Austin

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 09:58:14 AM »
Sometimes, Pastor Bohler, it is better to be shot than to shoot.
And I will not be drawn into a discussion about whether people receiving government aid are "willing" to work or not. People I know who received government aid are willing to work.
And please note carefully. My concern is as much for attitude as it is for action.

George Erdner

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 10:00:43 AM »
'Tis but a short step from "deadly weapons culture" to accusations of people being "gun toting crazies".

There is already an excellent thread that exists called Gun Ownership & Gun Violence where this topic is being discussed. For the sake of good order, I urge all participants to ignore this redundant thread on the same topic, albeit with an obviously biased twist, and use that thread to continue this discussion.

swbohler

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 10:03:43 AM »
Sometimes, Pastor Bohler, it is better to be shot than to shoot.
And I will not be drawn into a discussion about whether people receiving government aid are "willing" to work or not. People I know who received government aid are willing to work.
And please note carefully. My concern is as much for attitude as it is for action.

Rev. Austin,

I worked most of a decade in the social service field, about 5 years of that directing administering welfare programs.  I have a pretty good idea of how many there are that want to work, and how many simply take advantage of the system. 

Charles_Austin

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 10:18:27 AM »
Supposedly, I am ordered not to post on the other thread. My comments are deleted if I do. Maybe I should ask that there be an order that Mr. Erdner and Pastor Bohler not post in this thread. But I won't do that because I think such an order would be unfair.
Now does anyone else have anything to say  about the actual topic of this thread?


swbohler

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 10:21:02 AM »
Supposedly, I am ordered not to post on the other thread. My comments are deleted if I do. Maybe I should ask that there be an order that Mr. Erdner and Pastor Bohler not post in this thread. But I won't do that because I think such an order would be unfair.
Now does anyone else have anything to say  about the actual topic of this thread?

Why would you ask that my comments here be deleted?  What a weird thing to say.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 10:26:27 AM »
No, Pastor Bohler, the point is that I would not ask for your comments or the comments of anyone else to be deleted. That would be wrong. But it happens here. You don't like what is being said? Complain to the moderator. The remarks you do not like will be deleted. Or maybe not.


Jay Michael

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 10:27:05 AM »
How many of your evil concealed carry permit holders kill or are even involved in crimes? Show the numbers you are using to create all this fear of gun owners.  There are crazy gun owners (or thieves) much the same way there are crazy journalists such as the humble correspondent who continually faill to get the facts straight ... or simply get the facts straight ... but fail to report them

Full disclosure ... I do not own a fire arm ... but support the founders of this country who guaranteed the rights of gun owners through the Bill of Rights.

Finally ... weapons are NOT deadly by design ... only by use ... much in the same way an automobile is not deadly by design ... but deadly when used in a careless irresponsible manner ... should this thread be renamed

Re: Resisting the deadly automobile culture?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:19:17 AM by Richard Johnson »

Norman Teigen

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 10:37:30 AM »
I think that you are on to something important here, Pastor Austin.  I am currently reading Thomas Fleming's 2013 book on why the Civil War was fought.  The title of this book is A Disease in the Public Mind.  The public mind is very much linked to public opinion. Fleming writes that "the public mind suggests something less fluctuating than opinion - and more complex than an illusion, which can be swiftly dispelled by events. The phrase implies fixed beliefs that are fundamental to the way people participate in the world of their times.  A disease in the public mind would seem to be a twisted interpretation of political or economic of spiritual realities that seizes control of thousands and even millions of minds."

Some might think that the current guns matter is such a disease of the mind.
Norman Teigen

BHHughes

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Re: Resisting the deadly weapons culture
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 10:38:20 AM »
Sometimes, Pastor Bohler, it is better to be shot than to shoot.
And I will not be drawn into a discussion about whether people receiving government aid are "willing" to work or not. People I know who received government aid are willing to work.
And please note carefully. My concern is as much for attitude as it is for action.

Rev. Austin,

I worked most of a decade in the social service field, about 5 years of that directing administering welfare programs.  I have a pretty good idea of how many there are that want to work, and how many simply take advantage of the system.

In college I was an intake worker for medical assistance.  I took applications at the county hospital for people who came through the ER without medical insurance.  The idea was to help people obtain state medicaid cards so the county's expenses could be reimbursed.  Rarely did anyone return their documentation so they could be processed.  That was the mid-70's. 

We're now several generations later and the impact of the entitlement mentality has expanded exponentially. The intact urban family is pretty much gone.  With that destruction came the rise in gun violence we see in places like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, DC, and Newark.  Recently I read that if urban gun violence numbers (nearly all drug and gang related) from 5 major American cities were subtracted from the national numbers, the US would have one of the lowest gun violence rates in the industrialized West. Further subtracting out firearms related suicide rates would leave the US as having the lowest firearms death rate in the industrialized West and  put it near the bottom of the list among all nations. And that's just from 5 cities with their gang and drug related violence.

So we have two problems:

1) The impact of fatherless men in urban environments who turn to gangs, drug sales and gun violence.
2) Mental health and depression issues that lead to firearms being used in suicide.

All waving of arms and screaming about disarming Americans doesn't get at either of these issues. But you already know  that and most anti-gun rhetoric is the height of foolishness.