Author Topic: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports  (Read 5206 times)

BHughes

  • Guest
A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« on: July 20, 2011, 01:59:14 PM »

OK, I was properly admonished for discussing things that go "POW!" on a thread about something completely different.  So here we go.

Opening premise:  it's really OK for pastors to own and shoot things that go "POW!" particularly when it comes to target and range shooting?  Gosh, I think it's OK, but then again I'm a tad touched in the head so your mileage may vary.  What do you use and why?

I'll start with ... of the toys in the safe the one I almost always take to the range is an early 50's High Standard Supermatic Trophy .22 pistol.  It was my step-father's and he inherited it from his father.  This particular model is the only US produced target pistol to win an Olympic gold medal.  It's way more accurate than I'll ever be, but .22's are cheap to shoot and a great gun for introducing/training noobs.  I taught both our kids to shoot with it and the daughter really has the bug.  The son prefers shooting long guns and he's pretty good at that too.


David Garner

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 8065
    • View Profile
    • For He is Good and Loves Mankind
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 02:06:34 PM »
I'm no longer a Lutheran, and I've never been a Pastor, but I became Lutheran in the first place through the shooting sports, so count me in favor.

I'll reiterate this quote I made in another thread:

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
    óJeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

As to toys, I have too many to list, but a Glock 19 is my primary defensive pistol and a Remington 700 7mm Magnum is my pride and joy rifle.  I also have a matching model 700 in .300 Win. Mag., a Remington 1100 16 gauge shotgun, a Smith and Wesson Model 19, and several others I've collected over the years.  I would love a good AR15, and one day I'll also get a Glock 20 for camping in black bear country.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
    • View Profile
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 02:15:10 PM »
I am not into guns myself.  I shot a .22 rifle a few times at cub scout camp with my son, and got pretty good with the old Nintendo, but that's it.

Certainly for target shooting there should be nothing wrong with guns.  It is a sport that requires skill and training.  Mastering it can be satisfying.

I have found nothing in the Bible that would forbid hunting.  Good citizenship would demand that all hunting be done in compliance with all appropriate laws.  Good stewardship would suggest that hunting be done in ways that do not cause undue suffering to animals (wounding and then leaving to die painfully, or using weapons or techniques that cause more pain than necessary) and respect and help preserve the environment (hunting endangered animals for sport or simply for trophies would not be be good stewardship).  Hunting can be done in responsible ways.

Not my cup of tea, but then not everyone would be thrilled to persue my hobby of cross stitch.

Dan
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

BHughes

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 02:23:30 PM »
  The last couple of years I've been selling off the toys to finance other hobbies.  The wife and I have an agreement - a toy for a toy.  So, this is all I have left:

  Let's see ...  The High Standard .22 with standard target and extra suppressed barrel, a S&W 5906 9mm, Bushmaster HBAR AR-15, French MAS 49/56, S&W model 1917 in .45, Mossberg 500 12 gauge, Ithaca model 37 featherweight 12, Remington Model 12 in 20 gauge (manufactured in 1914), Browning High Power 9mm, North American Arms .22 mag pistol, CZ 52 7.62x25, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, K98 WWII German issue, S&W model 60 .38 chief's special, S&W model 29 .44 mag, steyr mannlicher 30-06 with Kahles scope and double set triggers, Dixie Arms .58 black powder, Italian .44 black powder pistol, Nobel pump action .22 rifle, Stevens single shot falling block .22 rifle, Marlin semi-auto .22 rifle, and finally ...

A Lage, slow fire upper equipped competition Mac-10.  For some reasons all my friends want to shoot this one... :-)

BHughes

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 02:25:43 PM »
Dan,

The fees collected from hunting licensees (look up the cost of an out-of-state elk license for Montana) are the backbone of much of what passes for wildlife preservation in the US.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 02:44:25 PM by BHughes »

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
    • View Profile
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 02:35:22 PM »
I certainly do not doubt that.  It is not my hobby so I am not up on the ins and outs of it.  But Christians should practice good stewardship in their hobbies which includes good stewardship of the land and environment.  The US has chosen to fund much of wildlife management through these fees.  I don't know if it is good or bad.  At least something is being done.

Dan
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

BHughes

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 02:44:00 PM »
I certainly do not doubt that.  It is not my hobby so I am not up on the ins and outs of it.  But Christians should practice good stewardship in their hobbies which includes good stewardship of the land and environment.  The US has chosen to fund much of wildlife management through these fees.  I don't know if it is good or bad.  At least something is being done.

Dan

 I no longer hunt so I have no skin that game.  I do know that Ducks Unlimited is famous for purchasing land in Canada and along certain flyways to protect and maintain it. 

The issue in the US is less a wildlife concern of, "let poor Bambi live" than it's, "Dang, we're being runover by Bambis and I wish someone would thin this herd."  That's the other aspect of legal hunting.  Because so much of the US is now crop land and there are fewer natural predators, the over all numbers of some species is orders of magnitude higher than before the European invasion of North America.  Hunting maintains a better balance.  When I was still hunting in California there was a lottery system for black tail deer in the Tahama Wildlife Area to thin them out.  Just about everyone who drew a tag went home with one.

PTMcCain

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 02:49:08 PM »
I grew up spending countless hours at the bayou where we lived with my Benjamin air rifle. When my sons got their shooting merit badges in the Boy Scouts, my love for the shooting sports was rekindled.

I'm member of a private rifle and pistol club here in the STL area that offers skeet, trap, rifle and handgun ranges, in a pleasing variety.

I basically enjoy shooting anything that goes "bang!" but my primary interests now are with my handguns and rifles.

I've got the following handguns: a Glock 17 and 26, a Ruger Mark III Huntsman, a Springfield Armory 1911 and a Ruger SR1911.

Lately my interest in rifles has moved toward Curios and Relics and I've got my ATF license for that, very convenient. So far my collection includes a Mosin Nagant 91/30 and a M44 (talk about "boom!)", a Mauser 98K, in a Yugo 24/47 configuration, and a M1 Garand.

My other long guns include a Daniel Defense M34 Carbine, a Remington 870 Tactical Express 12 gauge shotgun and a Ruger 10/22.

I find the shooting sports enormously relaxing, enjoyable, a mental and physical challenge and when I'm cleaning and maintaining my rifle it is really great.

As for animals...I love them, they taste great!

:)

NCEngineer

  • ALPB Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 05:29:40 PM »
I was taught and then taught my sons:  never aim at anything you don't want dead, don't shoot anything you don't plan to put on the table (varmints, ie:feral cats excluded), and exercise gun control -- two shots in the same hole.
Franklin M
NC
Ret. Ind. Engineering Professor and Safety Consultant
Engineers make things -- Industrial Engineers make things work

Kurt Weinelt

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1223
  • Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders!
    • View Profile
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 06:38:41 PM »

Opening premise:  it's really OK for pastors to own and shoot things that go "POW!" particularly when it comes to target and range shooting?  Gosh, I think it's OK, but then again I'm a tad touched in the head so your mileage may vary.  What do you use and why?

Maybe the example of Pastor/General Peter Muhlenberg would support your premise? Of course, his targets were Redcoats.....
 
...on January 21, 1776 in the Lutheran church in Woodstock, Virginia, Reverend Muhlenberg took his sermon text from the third chapter Ecclesiastes, which starts with "To every thing there is a season..."; after reading the eighth verse, "a time of war, and a time of peace," he declared, "And this is the time of war," removing his clerical robe to reveal his Colonel's uniform. Outside the church door the drums began to roll as men turned to kiss their wives and then walked down the aisle to enlist, and within half an hour, 162 men were enrolled.[2] The next day he led out 300 men from the county to form the nucleus of the Eighth Virginia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Muhlenberg
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

PTMcCain

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 06:40:04 PM »
NCE, I've tried eating the paper targets I shoot, they are just not very tasty, but a lot easier on my teeth than the steel plates at the range.

BHughes

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 06:51:15 PM »

 And skeet, even when properly powered by a decent shot, are simply too crunchy for me!

 Some of my fondest memories harken back to goose hunting with my step-father on the eastern shore of Maryland.  I remember calling down the lone goose, that poor fellow who flew without mate and he heard the beckoning call of possible relationship, spread his wings and tail as he slowed for final approach.  Perhaps he dreamt of a winter no longer alone, chicks to raise and feed, a home of sticks and memories then ... "Blam."  "So Brian, you gonna pluck that thing yourself this year?"

NCEngineer

  • ALPB Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 06:57:39 PM »
NCE, I've tried eating the paper targets I shoot, they are just not very tasty, but a lot easier on my teeth than the steel plates at the range.

I meant living things.  Good jab ;D
Franklin M
NC
Ret. Ind. Engineering Professor and Safety Consultant
Engineers make things -- Industrial Engineers make things work

Daniel L. Gard

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2011, 07:02:53 PM »
I have never owned a weapon. No need to do so - my Marines have pretty good rifles and they protect their Chaplain. And my Sailors - their guns can hit targets hundreds of miles away.  :)

PTMcCain

  • Guest
Re: A Frivolous Thread - Lutheran pastors and shooting sports
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 07:04:31 PM »
Some of the sailors' weapons can hit targets thousands of miles away. Run silent. Run deep.