Author Topic: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers  (Read 9225 times)

LutherMan

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Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« on: May 09, 2010, 09:51:03 PM »
http://www.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=16919

Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers

BATON ROUGE (RNS) -- People qualified to carry concealed weapons should be able to keep them strapped on in a church or temple as a way to enhance security, a state House committee decided April 28.

The House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice voted 8-3 for a bill that would allow a church to hire a security force or create its own by authorizing the church's board or pastor to tap parishioners who have concealed weapons permits to bring the weapons to church.

Louisiana law currently bans weapons in houses of worship. The bill, sponsored by Republican Henry Burns, does not force churches to participate.
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 10:08:33 PM »
Wouldn't bother me in the least. 

I've signed CCW (gun permit) applications for parishioners knowing fully well that they just might be carrying on a Sunday.
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Evangel

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2010, 10:11:20 PM »
Concealed weapon permit holders are perhaps the most carefully vetted people in the country.  Some of them are even pastors.
Mark Schimmel, Pastor
Zion Lutheran Church, LCMC
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LutherMan

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 10:16:32 PM »
It has always been a great relief to me that we have several carry concealed members at my Midtown parish. 
I hope the LA law passes.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 11:01:26 PM »
Does not scripture warn us about trusting in the power of "horses and chariots" and, by interpretation, handguns? (Isaiah 31)

And did not Minnesota churches win the right to ban weapons from their property, even if a carry permit had been issued? Good for them.

I find the idea of firearms in a worship service (outside of the combat areas of a war zone) obscene.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 11:08:22 PM »
Does not scripture warn us about trusting in the power of "horses and chariots" and, by interpretation, handguns? (Isaiah 31)

Yet the Torah enjoins that "when your neighbor bleeds, you shall not stand idly by".   Jesus fulfilled, but did not abolish the Law and the Prophets.

In an active shooting situation doing nothing to neutralize the threat (assuming one is trained and equipped to do so) constitutes standing idly by.

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pr dtp

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 11:12:52 PM »
Does not scripture warn us about trusting in the power of "horses and chariots" and, by interpretation, handguns? (Isaiah 31)

And did not Minnesota churches win the right to ban weapons from their property, even if a carry permit had been issued? Good for them.

I find the idea of firearms in a worship service (outside of the combat areas of a war zone) obscene.

Let's see - when I was a jail chaplain, we had a armed sheriff in the sanctuary and chapel.  Did they have to be?  Probably not.  Didn't bother me in the least.

Been on military bases - men there are armed all the time - not obscene.

Preached in churches in the inner city -  wouldn't bother me there either.

Had my church broken into - so the offering could be stolen multiple times.  They even once broke in during Sunday School - Meth addicts - carrying a gun or other weapons - not a concern.  Of the pastors in the ministerial association there - at least 8 had CCW permits.

Those that condone and encourage sinful behavior - despite knowing that God forbids it - that's obscene.




(PS - my preference in weapons are less lethal - but often more effective at close range - inside 10 feet)

Pr. Thomas Fast

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 11:19:01 PM »
Firearms in Church?  Ha!  That's nothing.

Last summer when I was flying down to Florida to visit my mother, I got the seat right in front of the screaming baby---just like I always do.

Next to me was a lady who was very active in a non-denom congregation. 

She was particularly excited about a new ministry they were offering.  It was called "believer's boxing."

Sometimes love don't feel like it should.  :-)

In any event, five minutes into that topic and I was praying that the baby would start screaming again.

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 11:22:13 PM »
Does not scripture warn us about trusting in the power of "horses and chariots" and, by interpretation, handguns? (Isaiah 31)

And did not Minnesota churches win the right to ban weapons from their property, even if a carry permit had been issued? Good for them.

I find the idea of firearms in a worship service (outside of the combat areas of a war zone) obscene.

I find it wonderful that we live in a country where we can worship him without fear.  I am also glad that we live in a country where the right of the lawful citizenry to bear arms is not to be infringed by the government.  Thankfully there are citizens continually striving to ensure the right guaranteed in the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution is not impinged.  I'm proud to be a member of the nation's oldest civil rights organization.

I have been to South Africa where carrying firearms during the Divine Service was deemed necessary.  Armed members or at even paid security personnel would stand guard outside with weapons visible.  Evildoers knew that offerings would be taken at church and they would plan to disrupt the preaching of the Gospel and loot the children of God.  Christians there have said no thanks to that.

If evildoers come to the house of God to hurt Christians because the Gospel is being preached, then we will gladly lay down our lives.  If evildoers come to the house of God to do evil like the example above of thievery, then I would be glad if there were armed parishoners to protect the children of God and the gifts He has given them for godly use.

LutherMan

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 11:38:12 PM »
Just google church shootings, amazing how many incidents there have been. 

When I still  lived in San Diego my uptown church sat on the border of three different neighborhoods, and we would get some pretty scary meth freaks and homeless types occasionally wander in during Midweek Vespers.  I always made it a point to sit toward the back, so I could offer to 'assist' them during service, after all, Lutheran Worship was confusing to some guests who wandered in under the influence.

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Charles_Austin

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 03:15:14 AM »
Allowing, or even promoting the carrying of weapons in churches is an example of how the faith has given in to the "culture of the times," which treats deadly force and physical power as the "first line of defense" against evil.
And of course, for many in this forum, being influenced by the "culture of the times" or letting the "culture of the times" affect what we do in church is wrong. Right? Or does that only apply to certain issues?  ;)

« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 03:17:03 AM by Charles_Austin »

Mel Harris

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2010, 04:56:37 AM »

Allowing, or even promoting the carrying of weapons in churches is an example of how the faith has given in to the "culture of the times," which treats deadly force and physical power as the "first line of defense" against evil.
And of course, for many in this forum, being influenced by the "culture of the times" or letting the "culture of the times" affect what we do in church is wrong. Right? Or does that only apply to certain issues?  ;)


Pastor Austin,

You may want to reconsider your statement quoted above.

Are you contending that the Pontifical Swiss Guard has only recently been allowed to carry arms of any kind in or near church property and was completely unarmed for most of its roughly 500 year history?

A case can be made that restricting where free citizens are allowed to carry arms is a rather modern innovation for many societies.  Historically, restrictions on the right to own and bear arms often applied to subjugated peoples.  For example, Christians and Jews were not allowed to bear arms under historic Sharia law, but Moslems were allowed to bear arms.

Mel Harris

Charles_Austin

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2010, 05:08:09 AM »
I am not referring to the right of the state (and the Vatican is a state) to maintain an army or police force.
But am I the only one here who thinks that rejoicing about something which allows and encourages the carrying of weapons to church by individuals who are not military or police is just plain damn weird?
But I suspect that this thread has run off the rails, if it was ever on track.

Harvey_Mozolak

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Re: Louisiana moves to allow armed worshipers
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2010, 07:04:24 AM »
No, Charles, you are not the only one to find it difficult to understand the joy at the right to bear arms in worship settings, if anything it is a great sadness to have to bear them anywhere.  While there may be indeed many exceptions like a military worship service or even my member who may be a policeman in uniform or even an undercover officer on the way to or from work, a worship service in the woods during hunting season, whatever, ordinary folks in most ordinary settings where armed  security is not normally needed on a usual basis seems like overkill, excuse the term... OK the chapel is always filled with drug addicts, so hire a security guard... but ordinary Sunday mornings in rural parishes, suburban stained glass settings and downtown noon stone cathedrals, the majority of our gathers...  we do not always have to be prepared for nuclear war do we?    I know it was not a case of Peter  protecting little children who were picnicking in Gethsemane, but the sword was rather unnecessary, wasn't it?  I am not sure how brave I would always be, but what about the rite to bear abuse, suffer in the name of...?  Let's all carry a pocket or purse full of nails and at least one spear, just in case there is a need for crucifixion.     Harvey Mozolak
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