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Archived Boards => LCMS Convention 2010 => Topic started by: Daniel L. Gard on July 14, 2010, 03:58:27 PM

Title: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on July 14, 2010, 03:58:27 PM
I would like to take a moment and express my congratulations to President-elect Harrison and his supporters. May the Lord of the Church grant him wisdom, grace and joy as he takes up the responsibilities of President of the LC-MS.

I would also express my gratitude to President Kieschnick for his years of service to our Synod. I have no doubts that he will continue to serve his Lord in other capacities and I pray for the Lordís blessings on him and his ministry.

I have now completed my role as a place holder on the ballot. It was an interesting experience before the election as I saw first hand the sometimes nasty approach of both left and right. Post-election has also been interesting though I do grow weary of the jokes about my "crushing defeat". As one who served only as a name that completed the ballot so that the election could go forward, the election turned out exactly as I knew it would. And as God has indeed directed in answer to the prayers of His people that His will would be done.

May God bless our leadership, both those who are leaving office and those who are entering!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 14, 2010, 04:02:52 PM
Thank you for allowing your name to stand on the ballot Dr. Gard.
Blessings!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: pastormesser on July 14, 2010, 04:15:04 PM
It was an interesting experience before the election as I saw first hand the sometimes nasty approach of both left and right.

Dr. Gard,

But you never spoke out against the nastiness on the right as you did against the left.  Which was really disappointing to me.

Scott+

Scott,

Who is NOT guilty of disappointing you? 

And, you are just plain wrong about Dr. Gard.  He has been consistent ever since I have been on this forum in lamenting nastiness no matter from which "side" it comes. 

Lastly, what you personally consider "nastiness" does not automatically mean that "nastiness" it is.  Something to think about.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on July 14, 2010, 04:16:50 PM
I would like to take a moment and express my congratulations to President-elect Harrison and his supporters. May the Lord of the Church grant him wisdom, grace and joy as he takes up the responsibilities of President of the LC-MS.

I would also express my gratitude to President Kieschnick for his years of service to our Synod. I have no doubts that he will continue to serve his Lord in other capacities and I pray for the Lordís blessings on him and his ministry.

I have now completed my role as a place holder on the ballot. It was an interesting experience before the election as I saw first hand the sometimes nasty approach of both left and right. Post-election has also been interesting though I do grow weary of the jokes about my "crushing defeat". As one who served only as a name that completed the ballot so that the election could go forward, the election turned out exactly as I knew it would. And as God has indeed directed in answer to the prayers of His people that His will would be done.

May God bless our leadership, both those who leaving office and those who are entering!

Thanka for running, Chaplain Gard.  Thanks also for your forthright answers to the Q & A given you as part of the process.

It was nice to actually exchange posts with an LCMS presidential candidate.

Mike
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 14, 2010, 04:17:51 PM
I would like to think that nastiness is going to go away from the LCMS forever, but I know better.  We ought to rebuke it, and receive rebuke when we've fallen into it, but we also need to remember that it is far more important to see that the Word of God is preserved than that we are nice.  Otherwise we can spend so much time chasing our tails about how we behave that we forget about weightier things.

There's an unending list of grievances in the MS regarding bad behavior.  I hope we can forgive each other those on both sides, and focus on finding unity in the Word of God.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on July 14, 2010, 04:28:12 PM
Chap. Gard, I thoroughly enjoyed being your supporter!   ;D  Yet my 'sadness' at your defeat is tempered by my anticipation of Pres-Elect Harrison's term and my thankfulness for the service of Pres. Kieschnick.  It was your comment about the need to stop marginalizing the small congregations that really drew me in.  As the pastor of a small congregation, it really resonated with me and I appreciated your encouragement.  It means a lot to hear that.

Thanks,
Jeremy
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: pastormesser on July 14, 2010, 04:44:50 PM
I would like to think that nastiness is going to go away from the LCMS forever, but I know better.  We ought to rebuke it, and receive rebuke when we've fallen into it, but we also need to remember that it is far more important to see that the Word of God is preserved than that we are nice.  Otherwise we can spend so much time chasing our tails about how we behave that we forget about weightier things.

There's an unending list of grievances in the MS regarding bad behavior.  I hope we can forgive each other those on both sides, and focus on finding unity in the Word of God.

I share your hope, Pr. Hess.  I would add that it would be most helpful to our moving forward toward unity in the Word of God if a) people were not so quick to judge substantive criticism in the midst of debate as "nastiness," b) people would stop pretending that they possessed some supernatural ability to ascertain the emotional state and/or motivational mindset of others, c) people would stop confusing theological dialogue with matters of contrary opinion, and d) people would stop operating from the "guilt by association" principle and address the actual person(s) with whom they are communicating - and I readily admit my own guilt for not doing as well as I should in these areas, and for my need to do better. 
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: ptmccain on July 14, 2010, 04:49:23 PM
Thanks for taking one for the team, Dan. If you and Karl had not said, "OK" I think we would still be trying to find names to populate the ballot.

Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on July 14, 2010, 05:25:30 PM
Pastor Geminn,

First, I thank you for your criticism. I receive it in the spirit in which it was given and recognize my many short-comings. For them, I offer my apologies. May the Lord, who alone is able, bless you and heal your heart and, indeed, the hearts of all who hurt in this sin-filled world.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: pastormesser on July 14, 2010, 05:25:57 PM
Not once did the chaplain mention the BJOS site.  Not once did any of you speak out against the breaking of the 8th commandment on that page.  Not ONCE.  The problem of disunity will not go away until we all take blinders off.  I can honestly say I have called out both sides.  I haven't seen that with any of you.  As we got closer to the election some went so far as to bait people and not once did any of you speak out against this because they were on your side. This I cannot stomach, it makes me want to grieve.  I cannot respect such viciousness and hypocrisy.  Paul is clear about love in 1st Corinthians 13.  You say you want directness but when you get it you attack.  As I have said before I would love to meet some of you face to face because I don't think you would be so bold in person.  

My Lord is Jesus Christ not some seminary or church institution.  He bids me to follow Him and not some professor or president.  This forum has been great but it has also been extremely disappointing.  The bias is obvious and you don't see it because you are on that side.  Dr. Gard calls me out for associating Harrison with the Otten element which was fair (but I was also on to something as the recent Christian News proved) on his part but not once does he call any of you out for railing against President Kieshnick and the powers that be as well as when you gang up on those who you don't agree with.  I just don't understand this.  You all break my heart.

Scott+

Scott,

Yes, I want directness.  More than that, I want specifics.  Point to something specific and ask for a response.  Don't assume everyone has read everything you have read.  And quit making general, sweeping accusations without providing specifics.  Whether you realize it or not, THAT is what leads to disunity more than anything else.  

I don't have time to respond to this more right now - gotta go teach a class and lead Evening Prayer.  I will just say now before having to run that you are wrong about none of us ever speaking out against the breaking of the 8th commandment when that has occurred on the BJS site.  I have done that myself a number of times, and so have others on this board that I know.

Later . . .
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: grabau14 on July 14, 2010, 05:40:28 PM
Scott,

You are wrong about some of us "not calling out BJS" when they erred--  http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=7244  See Comment 29.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: revjagow on July 14, 2010, 06:31:11 PM
Good show, Matthew.  Good show.

Scott G., I am glad you are on this board and that Chaplain Gard and others are regular participants.  I've always felt that the ALPB board gives a great opportunity to really read ("listen") to a variety of viewpoints.  There have been some great exchanges here over the past few years, sometimes peppered with conflict, forgiveness and even reconciliation. 

I'm for staying in the spirit of "One People: Forgiven" right now.  I'm also for everyone getting a clean slate and starting over.  I think I can forget everything I've read at websites like the one you mentioned and just take everything right now as if it were day one in the LCMS.  Past is past.  God has thrown it as far as the east is from the west. 

I'm hearing of some encouraging conversations people are having in Houston.  I'm perhaps sensing a conciliatory spirit among us LCMS types on this board.  Let's just stay here for a moment, at least, and imagine its a new beginning for our church body. 

-Andy "who is going to be the first to burst my bubble?" Jagow
(apologies to Pete Garrison for copying his style  ;)...)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 14, 2010, 06:33:11 PM
Thanks, Pr. Jagow.   :)
Blessings!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 14, 2010, 09:21:01 PM
Andy,

I don't think it's a bubble or pipe dream - it's the feeling I've gotten in the room in general.  I am cautiously hopeful it will be so, and given how President-elect Harrison began, that that is exactly how he will continue and a new day will indeed be dawning for relations in the Synod. 

Pax!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: James Thomas Sharp on July 14, 2010, 09:39:35 PM


I'm hearing of some encouraging conversations people are having in Houston.  I'm perhaps sensing a conciliatory spirit among us LCMS types on this board.  Let's just stay here for a moment, at least, and imagine its a new beginning for our church body. 

-Andy "who is going to be the first to burst my bubble?" Jagow
(apologies to Pete Garrison for copying his style  ;)...)

No bubble bursting here - the spirit of the convention is really positive.  Whether it is the muted response of the Cross party to the elections or the very magnanimous actions and speeches of the Jesus party, this is very different than the spirit I witnessed at the only other convention of which I have firsthand knowledge, 2004.

And Chaplain Gard, I apologize for my second ballot joke.  I appreciate your willingness to stand so that we could have an election.  I have also heard several delegates say that they liked the answers you and Pr. Fickenscher better than for the Big Two candidates.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Maryland Brian on July 14, 2010, 09:48:04 PM

 You say you want directness but when you get it you attack.  As I have said before I would love to meet some of you face to face because I don't think you would be so bold in person.  


  Well, it just goes to show bitter hearts can be found in the LC-MS as well as my own ELCA.  Sigh ...
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LCMS87 on July 15, 2010, 12:01:20 AM
Chap. Gard, I thoroughly enjoyed being your supporter!   ;D  Yet my 'sadness' at your defeat is tempered by my anticipation of Pres-Elect Harrison's term and my thankfulness for the service of Pres. Kieschnick.  It was your comment about the need to stop marginalizing the small congregations that really drew me in.  As the pastor of a small congregation, it really resonated with me and I appreciated your encouragement.  It means a lot to hear that.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Not to take anything away from Dr. Gard, who had my vote though it didn't count since I wasn't credentialed either, but as the pastor of a small congregation you might appreciate the essay at this link (http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=14519).  I did.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on July 15, 2010, 12:12:41 AM
I have a strong sense of convention delegates and guests coming together in a way I have not sensed for years. This evening I attended a chaplains' banquet at which most of the COP was present. The words exchanged and compassion shown in informal conversation was not the stiff politeness that sometimes passes as collegiaity. It was genuine.

I am sensing that also among others. Maybe, jusy maybe....God is allowing us to experience those things that we all want as the family of God. Love, forgiveness, peace.

I had the privilege of speaking with President Kieschnick at the banquet. We both spoke of our appreciation for each other and the work that we shared. The best part is that we actually meant it.

I am filled with hope tonight.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: J. Eriksson on July 15, 2010, 12:22:53 AM
Thanks for taking one for the team, Dan. If you and Karl had not said, "OK" I think we would still be trying to find names to populate the ballot.
 The most enjoyable thing about this site  in the last 2 weeks or so has been the sheer 'fun' of the GAGME campaign of the supporters of Pastor Gard.   In my outsiders view whenever I checked on here in the last couple of weeks I checked to see 'what else ' could they have come up with.   I hope everyone has enjoyed it, I certainly did.  and I do hope that Prs. Dan and Karl are having trouble consuming all the beverages that I hope people are buying them for being such good sports.  They deserve them.
I would consider it an honor to meet you 2 basically for the grace in which you have "taken one for the team"

My Best wishes
James
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LCMS87 on July 15, 2010, 12:42:59 AM
I have a strong sense of convention delegates and guests coming together in a way I have not sensed for years. This evening I attended a chaplains' banquet at which most of the COP was present. The words exchanged and compassion shown in informal conversation was not the stiff politeness that sometimes passes as collegiaity. It was genuine.

I am sensing that also among others. Maybe, jusy maybe....God is allowing us to experience those things that we all want as the family of God. Love, forgiveness, peace.

I had the privilege of speaking with President Kieschnick at the banquet. We both spoke of our appreciation for each other and the work that we shared. The best part is that we actually meant it.

I am filled with hope tonight.

Thank you!  I rejoice to hear you report this.  In combination with the reports of others in Houston, both here at alpb and in private correspondence, I too am much encouraged. 

I pray for our president, our president elect, and all those whose service is ending and beginning.  May God grant us grace to know the blessing of dwelling together in unity. 
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Dave_Poedel on July 15, 2010, 01:17:44 PM
I echo Scott's comments and add my AMEN to them.  Thanks, Andy, for chiming in, as well. Yes, I am cynical, but I predict that now that Rev, Harrison has won a substantial victory and he has a Presidium that will be supportive of him (and I heartily congratulate him and them), most of the LCMS guys on the right will stop posting here and move back to LQ and Steadfast and who knows where else.

This board will then return to being an irenic board of reasonable Lutheran clergy and laity who want to struggle with the challenges and celebrate the little victories we have in our parishes.

God bless, and keep us all.

And now...I have an English Bible Camp in Poland to put on.  Keep us all in your prayers, as there are 5 teams as a part of the Ablaze! initiative (while we still have it).
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 15, 2010, 01:35:39 PM
I echo Scott's comments and add my AMEN to them.  Thanks, Andy, for chiming in, as well. Yes, I am cynical, but I predict that now that Rev, Harrison has won a substantial victory and he has a Presidium that will be supportive of him (and I heartily congratulate him and them), most of the LCMS guys on the right will stop posting here and move back to LQ and Steadfast and who knows where else.

This board will then return to being an irenic board of reasonable Lutheran clergy and laity who want to struggle with the challenges and celebrate the little victories we have in our parishes.

God bless, and keep us all.

And now...I have an English Bible Camp in Poland to put on.  Keep us all in your prayers, as there are 5 teams as a part of the Ablaze! initiative (while we still have it).

Padre, your comments don't seem particularly irenic, nor do Scott's.  They seem rather caustic and bitter, and intentionally hurtful.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: lcms06 on July 15, 2010, 01:49:01 PM
I can't see Rev Harrison putting an end to these programs. Not sure he has the power to do so.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on July 15, 2010, 01:58:02 PM
Padre Dave, safe travels to Poland.  I pray that it will be a time of refreshment for you and your group and a time to give loving and bold witness to the truth of Jesus Christ.  And be ablaze to your heart's content...for as long as you are able.  You do not need a program to be ablaze or to tell the good news of Jesus or to dialog about evangelism or to fan into flame the grace of God amongst His faithful followers.

I consider myself to be 'on the right' and I'm not going anywhere else.  I like it here because I find myself both challenged and encouraged by many of the posters.

Safe travels and please enjoy your work and your respite.
Jeremy 
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: ptmccain on July 15, 2010, 02:05:18 PM
I predict that now thatmost of the LCMS guys on the right will stop posting here and move back to LQ and Steadfast and who knows where else.

Dave, this is uncharacteristic of what I've come to know of you as a friend and brother in Christ.

Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on July 15, 2010, 02:06:39 PM
Padre Dave, safe travels to Poland.  I pray that it will be a time of refreshment for you and your group and a time to give loving and bold witness to the truth of Jesus Christ.  And be ablaze to your heart's content...for as long as you are able.  You do not need a program to be ablaze or to tell the good news of Jesus or to dialog about evangelism or to fan into flame the grace of God amongst His faithful followers.

Exactly.  Even if the Synod's mission outreach program/movement should change names from Ablaze as it has many times before ("3 and 10" and "Each One Reach One" are two I remember)  the Synod's encouragement and support of evangelism will go on.

Mike
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 15, 2010, 02:08:27 PM
I predict that now thatmost of the LCMS guys on the right will stop posting here and move back to LQ and Steadfast and who knows where else.

Dave, this is uncharacteristic of what I've come to know of you as a friend and brother in Christ.


I agree.  Padre Dave usually is much more charitable.  Prayers are ascending for him.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on July 15, 2010, 02:15:42 PM
I predict that now thatmost of the LCMS guys on the right will stop posting here and move back to LQ and Steadfast and who knows where else.

Dave, this is uncharacteristic of what I've come to know of you as a friend and brother in Christ.


I agree.  Padre Dave usually is much more charitable.  Prayers are ascending for him.

Dave,

I join in prayers for you, both for your trip and for the pain you seem to feel right now. God bess you, my brother.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: grabau14 on July 15, 2010, 02:35:10 PM
Fr. Dave,

The Lord be with you as you travel abroad proclaiming the Gospel.  Safe travels and read a good book or two on the flight  :).
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Mike Gehlhausen on July 15, 2010, 02:44:43 PM
Pr. Poedel,

God's blessings on your trip abroad to proclaim His Gospel.

Mike
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: James Thomas Sharp on July 15, 2010, 02:52:39 PM
I echo Scott's comments and add my AMEN to them.  Thanks, Andy, for chiming in, as well. Yes, I am cynical, but I predict that now that Rev, Harrison has won a substantial victory and he has a Presidium that will be supportive of him (and I heartily congratulate him and them), most of the LCMS guys on the right will stop posting here and move back to LQ and Steadfast and who knows where else.

This board will then return to being an irenic board of reasonable Lutheran clergy and laity who want to struggle with the challenges and celebrate the little victories we have in our parishes.

God bless, and keep us all.

And now...I have an English Bible Camp in Poland to put on.  Keep us all in your prayers, as there are 5 teams as a part of the Ablaze! initiative (while we still have it).
I never posted on LQ or Steadfast and have no intention of doing so now.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 15, 2010, 02:57:51 PM
My dear Brother Dave,

I think that remark is exactly the sort of thing that we need to have a cease and desist order on; and I bet you think so too, in retrospect.  IS this an American Lutheran Publicity Board or is it only for those Lutherans who hold a certain ideological approach?  I'm sure you agree that it is not. 

Blessings on the trip to Poland.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 16, 2010, 03:40:22 PM
Yum.  Polish food.  Some of the dishes are even better than German & Danish cuisine. :)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Dave_Poedel on July 16, 2010, 04:09:47 PM
Thanks for the well wishes.  Dr. Gard correctly assessed my pain at the loss by the candidate I supported and what I fear will be a loss of freedom under the new leadership.  I am pained, because the last 9 years were the most enjoyable of my ministry in the LCMS because I felt free to simply be the Pastor I am without looking over my shoulder for someone to run what I do through some kind of "purity filter" as I experienced during the Barry administration.  I did live in fear then because the necessities of ministry as I saw them on the ground in Arizona were such that I was technically violating some of the "covenants of love" that are so important to many of you.  For the past 9 years, I actually tightened up my communion policy because my circumstances changed, but I honestly felt that as long as the Kieschnick programs were going on, the Right was too occupied to pay attention to what a little parish in Phoenix was up to.

So, yes, I was smarting over the election and dreading what my brothers on the right would be up to without all of the emphases and programs that they have spent the last 9 years ridiculing and resisting.  Let's just say that I have wounds from the past and have grown accustomed to them being closed and in the process of healing.  Pardon my skepticism that I am considered one of the "good guys" by my brothers on the right, as I have experienced how quickly you turn on me when it seems to be convenient....recall the recent dust-up about my STS incident, what, 4 years ago?  It took nothing to suddenly bring that to the fore, though it had been resolved by that dastardly Dispute Resolution Process that many on the right have sought to overturn. 

While I pray that the leadership of Rev. Harrison will be a time of Confessional renewal, Evangelical Catholic bliss (that includes all settings of the Divine Service of LSB) and a time of renewed mission outreach without keeping score (see, I don't like a lot of the old administration, soon to be of recent memory), and a time when those who have advocated the election of Rev. Harrison will behave in a caring, tolerant and benevolent manner towards those who disagree with them....yes, I pray for all of those things.....but pardon me if I recall that, after all, this IS the LCMS.....

From Poland,
Your servant.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: ptmccain on July 16, 2010, 04:13:32 PM
Dave,

I would sincerely like to know precisely when/where and how you felt you had a "purity filter" monitor looking over your shoulder under President Barry's administration.

PTM
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Dave_Poedel on July 16, 2010, 04:32:38 PM
Dave,

I would sincerely like to know precisely when/where and how you felt you had a "purity filter" monitor looking over your shoulder under President Barry's administration.

PTM
I responded by PM to protect the innocent.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: ptmccain on July 16, 2010, 04:34:23 PM
Thanks Dave, I would like to dialogue with you about this and look forward to your message.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Dan Fienen on July 17, 2010, 06:16:53 PM
I cannot respond to how the change in administration might affect ministry on the ground, but I do know Missouri.  In the recent past, (two and three years ago), several of my former members were attending a regular Bible study hosted by the former pastor of one of the families involved by conference call.  They found this Bible study to be spiritually enriching and the former pastor a master Bible study leader.  One of the upshots of the experience is that they are now former members, the congregation I serve being too liberal for their comfort.  While they assure me that the pastor leading the Bible study in no way wanted to undermine my ministry, they were kept up to date in this way on the terrible leadership of Pres. Kieschnick and given advice on what should and should not be tolerated in an LC-MS congregation.  The upshot was a serious controversy in my congregation that had the potential of splitting the congregation, and which was a factor in an attempt to get me to resign, and when they felt that they were not being welcomed and accepted as they should, they decamped for a neighboring congregation that suited them better and left me to pick up the pieces.

This while Pres. Kieschnick was in office.  I can understand why the Padra is a bit gun shy about a new synodical administration that many apparently hope will reverse the liberal drift under that notorious liberal G. Kieschnick and return the LC-MS to the straight and narrow with good tough discipline.  Perhaps even reversing the dreaded dispute resolution process and returning us to the good old days when anyone anywhere can put anyone he finds to have strayed up on charges and take them to trial.  I am not saying that that is what Pres. Elect Harrison wants to do or will allow to happen.  But enough has been said by some, perhaps some few, that supported him to make some of us nervous.

Dan
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 17, 2010, 07:40:57 PM
Dan, what's the solution?  What we've had thus far is diverging theological streams bound together by a common name, history, and insurance plan.  We've had pastors essentially free to do whatever they like, without regard for the brothers with whom they are supposed to be united in doctrine and practice.  I don't see that as an acceptable place for a confessional synod to be.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Dan Fienen on July 18, 2010, 12:14:32 AM
Dan, what's the solution?  What we've had thus far is diverging theological streams bound together by a common name, history, and insurance plan.  We've had pastors essentially free to do whatever they like, without regard for the brothers with whom they are supposed to be united in doctrine and practice.  I don't see that as an acceptable place for a confessional synod to be.
Perhaps to some the solution is to have pastors on the lookout for those who do not toe the line that they have drawn - none but us are truly confessional just give us the tools and we will drum them out of the brotherhood. The ones who are most restrictive in practice whose worship is most traditional, who do not see why anyone with an ounce of confessional integrety would not simply do it they way they do, make the rules and make sure everyone else complies.  Otherwise, where is the unity?  No one should ever set foot in a Missouri Synod congregation and find it any other way than the way they do it.  If it was OK in my grandfather's church why should it be any different today?

When I first saw the start up for the Brothers of John the Steadfast organization what it looked like to me was a) a support system for Issues, etc. b) an attempt to replace LLL and c) an attempt to recruit and train laymen to both support their pastors when they follow the BJS agenda and to keep an eye on them to make sure that they follow the BJS agenda.

I'm not sure what the answer is.  Some seem to want a unity where everyone thinks and acts essentially alike - a unity that is lock step uniformity.  For them anything less is disunity and everyone free to do whatever.  They also do not ever want anyone to see anything in any other LC-MS church that they would not see is their own.  If I do it, everybody should, if I don't do it, nobody should.

I pray that Pr. Harrison is not of that school of unity/uniformity, from what I have read I do not think so.  I also fear that there are those who wish to mold him into that direction.

Dan
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 18, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
Huh???  I'm genuinely confused by your comments, Dan.  I've not encountered anything close to that. 
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: justified and sinner on July 18, 2010, 01:27:54 AM
Dan, what's the solution?  What we've had thus far is diverging theological streams bound together by a common name, history, and insurance plan.  We've had pastors essentially free to do whatever they like, without regard for the brothers with whom they are supposed to be united in doctrine and practice.  I don't see that as an acceptable place for a confessional synod to be.

Karl,

I'll tell you what the answer is - get brothers to sit down and talk.  I had that ability with Glen Piper, Luke Zimmerman and James Sharp and a few other people.  When worried by some of the very serious "purging" talk I heard at one of the receptions, I talked to Will Weedon, and he reaffirmed that MH was someone I could work alongside, and not get paranoid.,

I left for the airport, and in the burger joint in the airport, I heard the talk about how the president and president emeritus should work together in the transistion.  One group doubted Rev. Harrison would, another group doubted Rev. Kieschnick would.

I said the same thing to both.  Gen. 50:20.

There will be some interesting times ahead... some will struggle, but if we are honest and talk it out, rather than choose sides based, not on the kings and princes, but on the issues and scripture, we will be ok.  Some won't - they'll stick to their guns, and there will be new ULMAS and some might go to LCMC or?  on the other. 

I will still preach Christ crucified, and serve the Body and Blood of Christ to those who need it.  So will Will Weedon, So will JeButler, so will James Sharp, and Padre Dave, and Bishop Benke.  And maybe, just maybe, if we take the time to realize at the altar we are unified.... then the rest works out.  Apart from the altar, it doesn't stand a chance in Hell.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 18, 2010, 09:33:42 AM
Wherefore this also Christ has done, to lead us to a closer friendship, and to show His love for us; He has given to those who desire Him not only to see Him, but even to touch, and eat Him, and fix their teeth in His flesh, and to embrace Him, and satisfy all their love. Let us then return from that table like lions breathing fire, having become terrible to the devil; thinking on our Head, and on the love which He has shown for us.  -- St. John Chrysostom, Homily 46 on John
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 18, 2010, 12:46:46 PM
Dan, what's the solution?  What we've had thus far is diverging theological streams bound together by a common name, history, and insurance plan.  We've had pastors essentially free to do whatever they like, without regard for the brothers with whom they are supposed to be united in doctrine and practice.  I don't see that as an acceptable place for a confessional synod to be.

Karl,

I'll tell you what the answer is - get brothers to sit down and talk.  I had that ability with Glen Piper, Luke Zimmerman and James Sharp and a few other people.  When worried by some of the very serious "purging" talk I heard at one of the receptions, I talked to Will Weedon, and he reaffirmed that MH was someone I could work alongside, and not get paranoid.,

I left for the airport, and in the burger joint in the airport, I heard the talk about how the president and president emeritus should work together in the transistion.  One group doubted Rev. Harrison would, another group doubted Rev. Kieschnick would.

I said the same thing to both.  Gen. 50:20.

There will be some interesting times ahead... some will struggle, but if we are honest and talk it out, rather than choose sides based, not on the kings and princes, but on the issues and scripture, we will be ok.  Some won't - they'll stick to their guns, and there will be new ULMAS and some might go to LCMC or?  on the other. 

I will still preach Christ crucified, and serve the Body and Blood of Christ to those who need it.  So will Will Weedon, So will JeButler, so will James Sharp, and Padre Dave, and Bishop Benke.  And maybe, just maybe, if we take the time to realize at the altar we are unified.... then the rest works out.  Apart from the altar, it doesn't stand a chance in Hell.

I'm glad you seem to have had good, brotherly consolation with some of the confessionals on here.  I think real talking would do us good, and real study of the bible and confessions would enable most of us to walk together again.  I also think that we have to be honest with one another and agree that if we cannot come to agreement in the Word of God, we have to be ready to part ways and place the word of God above other loyalties.  I love and respect many of the ELCA clergy I've come to know through the ALPB forum, but integrity demands that we acknowledge openly when the unity made manifest by the Holy Spirit is not present.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 18, 2010, 12:55:15 PM
Dan, what's the solution?  What we've had thus far is diverging theological streams bound together by a common name, history, and insurance plan.  We've had pastors essentially free to do whatever they like, without regard for the brothers with whom they are supposed to be united in doctrine and practice.  I don't see that as an acceptable place for a confessional synod to be.
Perhaps to some the solution is to have pastors on the lookout for those who do not toe the line that they have drawn - none but us are truly confessional just give us the tools and we will drum them out of the brotherhood. The ones who are most restrictive in practice whose worship is most traditional, who do not see why anyone with an ounce of confessional integrety would not simply do it they way they do, make the rules and make sure everyone else complies.  Otherwise, where is the unity?  No one should ever set foot in a Missouri Synod congregation and find it any other way than the way they do it.  If it was OK in my grandfather's church why should it be any different today?

When I first saw the start up for the Brothers of John the Steadfast organization what it looked like to me was a) a support system for Issues, etc. b) an attempt to replace LLL and c) an attempt to recruit and train laymen to both support their pastors when they follow the BJS agenda and to keep an eye on them to make sure that they follow the BJS agenda.

I'm not sure what the answer is.  Some seem to want a unity where everyone thinks and acts essentially alike - a unity that is lock step uniformity.  For them anything less is disunity and everyone free to do whatever.  They also do not ever want anyone to see anything in any other LC-MS church that they would not see is their own.  If I do it, everybody should, if I don't do it, nobody should.

I pray that Pr. Harrison is not of that school of unity/uniformity, from what I have read I do not think so.  I also fear that there are those who wish to mold him into that direction.

Dan

I agree with much of what you say, Dan.  But isn't there more to it than just some intolerant guys demanding that everyone do it their way?  Isn't real unity in the confession of God's Word a necessity for church fellowship?  Isn't discipline a necessity for preserving the Gospel for our congregations and for our children?

I don't agree that the problems in the Missouri Synod stem primarily from intolerance.  I think our problems stem primarily from tolerance of false doctrine and bad or mediocre practice.  If that is going to change there needs to be real willingness to have substantive discussion about where our differences lie--whether they are simply differences in words, style, or personality--or whether they are real differences in what is taught and confessed.  We are bound to argue until we're dead and be subject to constant political maneuvering unless the members of synod place themselves under the authority of the word of God.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 02:45:37 PM
I love and respect many of the ELCA clergy I've come to know through the ALPB forum, but integrity demands that we acknowledge openly when the unity made manifest by the Holy Spirit is not present.

Sticky wicket time, Pastor Hess.  I agree with what you say here, and I hope I'm one of those who you can respect, but I wonder -- would I also be one of those who you would say "we do not possess the unity made manifest in the Holy Spirit," and if this is true, what would you say is the problem between us?

Just for the record, I have a long resume on this issue of unity.  I abstained in 2005 from the first recommendation of the ELCA task force regarding unity because, as I said at the time, "the surest sign of disunity is scheduling a vote on unity."  We either have unity in the Holy Spirit, or we don't.  Paraphrasing that great Lutheran theologian, Yoda:  "Do or do not, there is no try."  One does not work on unity anymore than one works on love.

Pastor Hesse
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 02:48:52 PM
We are bound to argue until we're dead and be subject to constant political maneuvering unless the members of synod place themselves under the authority of the word of God.

I think we are dead and subject to constant political maneuvering because no one places themselves fully under the authority of the Word of God, this side of the eschaton.  It's the fallen reality, the briar patch we inhabit until the Lord frees us from it.
Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Jay on July 18, 2010, 03:48:35 PM

Pastor Hesse


From one Iowa State grad to another -

Congratulations!

Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 18, 2010, 03:50:55 PM

Pastor Hesse


From one Iowa State grad to another -

Congratulations!


Wow, when were you ordained?
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 18, 2010, 05:17:06 PM
We are bound to argue until we're dead and be subject to constant political maneuvering unless the members of synod place themselves under the authority of the word of God.

I think we are dead and subject to constant political maneuvering because no one places themselves fully under the authority of the Word of God, this side of the eschaton.  It's the fallen reality, the briar patch we inhabit until the Lord frees us from it.
Lou

Agreed.  But there is a difference between sins of weakness and sins against conscience (mortal sins), just as there is a difference between pastors who are orthodox and stumble and pastors who consistently hold to false doctrine.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 18, 2010, 05:21:54 PM
I love and respect many of the ELCA clergy I've come to know through the ALPB forum, but integrity demands that we acknowledge openly when the unity made manifest by the Holy Spirit is not present.

Sticky wicket time, Pastor Hess.  I agree with what you say here, and I hope I'm one of those who you can respect, but I wonder -- would I also be one of those who you would say "we do not possess the unity made manifest in the Holy Spirit," and if this is true, what would you say is the problem between us?

Just for the record, I have a long resume on this issue of unity.  I abstained in 2005 from the first recommendation of the ELCA task force regarding unity because, as I said at the time, "the surest sign of disunity is scheduling a vote on unity."  We either have unity in the Holy Spirit, or we don't.  Paraphrasing that great Lutheran theologian, Yoda:  "Do or do not, there is no try."  One does not work on unity anymore than one works on love.

Pastor Hesse


Yeah, Lou, you are definitely one of the ones I respect.  From your posts, I see a man who has a knows how to distinguish law and gospel better than I do.  To determine whether or not we are united would not be a matter of checking our synodical affiliation,  but talking over theology.  But from the little we've talked and from what I've seen you post here, I would guess that we are united.  (Which would lead me to my next question: aren't you in the LCMC?  Why?)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 06:30:27 PM

Pastor Hesse
From one Iowa State grad to another -
Congratulations!
Wow, when were you ordained?

My congregation called me on May 18, I was examined and ordained on July 10th.  I am enrolled in online seminary instruction through ILT.  (http://ilt.org/)

I think you can find a photo here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4649834&id=691436311#!/photo.php?pid=4647618&id=691436311&fbid=414128596311) if I've linked it right.
Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 06:32:19 PM
We are bound to argue until we're dead and be subject to constant political maneuvering unless the members of synod place themselves under the authority of the word of God.

I think we are dead and subject to constant political maneuvering because no one places themselves fully under the authority of the Word of God, this side of the eschaton.  It's the fallen reality, the briar patch we inhabit until the Lord frees us from it.
Lou

Agreed.  But there is a difference between sins of weakness and sins against conscience (mortal sins), just as there is a difference between pastors who are orthodox and stumble and pastors who consistently hold to false doctrine.
Agreed.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 18, 2010, 06:38:23 PM

Pastor Hesse
From one Iowa State grad to another -
Congratulations!
Wow, when were you ordained?

My congregation called me on May 18, I was examined and ordained on July 10th.  I am enrolled in online seminary instruction through ILT.  (http://ilt.org/)

I think you can find a photo here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4649834&id=691436311#!/photo.php?pid=4647618&id=691436311&fbid=414128596311) if I've linked it right.
Lou
Congratulations and Blessings! 
I admire the stand you took early on when you left ELCA.
Are you still farming, and will you be bi-vocational?
Craig---a *big* fan of pork.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 06:42:19 PM
Yeah, Lou, you are definitely one of the ones I respect.  From your posts, I see a man who has a knows how to distinguish law and gospel better than I do.  To determine whether or not we are united would not be a matter of checking our synodical affiliation,  but talking over theology.  But from the little we've talked and from what I've seen you post here, I would guess that we are united.  (Which would lead me to my next question: aren't you in the LCMC?  Why?)

Thanks, Karl, for the kind words.  I think the real key to this unity thing is what you say, "talking over theology."  I don't think unity can be done bureaucratically or hierarchically, only relationally.  And that takes time.  From what little I know about Matthew Harrison, I believe he recognizes this also.

As to your last question, I'm not LCMC.  I was ordained to place, specifically by Jim Nestingen.  (He told me this technically makes me an ordained minister of some old Norwegian body -- the one he was ordained into.)   I will colloquy into the Augsburg Lutheran Churches, next week.  I think if my congregation so desired, we could affiliate with TAALC, probably LCMC, or possibly even LCMS long term (it is currently an independent congregation).  I don't know what LCMS or TAALC would do with my status.  You know me, I've always been a challenge to authorities  ;)

I feel welcome in LCMS quarters, but I'm sure there's some discomfort about my less-than-normal route to where I am today.  Time will tell.  But we agree, unity is not found in synodical structure or roster, but in confession.
Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 06:44:53 PM
Congratulations and Blessings!  
I admire the stand you took early on when you left ELCA.
Are you still farming, and will you be bi-vocational?
Craig---a *big* fan of pork.

Thank you.  I will remain bivocational, unless God has other plans...
We also farm approx. 1300 acres irrigated:  corn, beans, canola, sunflowers, triticale, specialty seed crops, popcorn.
Keep up the pork consumption!
 ;D
Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Brian Stoffregen on July 18, 2010, 06:49:24 PM
unity is not found in synodical structure or roster, but in confession.

That is not always true. There are those who essentially have said, "I know that you confess that you believe as I do, but since you change the meaning of words, you don't really confess the same thing I do."
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 18, 2010, 06:51:51 PM
Lou,

My heartiest congratulations on your ordination.  And I have every intention of continuing to support your other vocation - for sausage, bacon, and ham are my three favorite meats!  :)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 18, 2010, 07:05:13 PM
Ham is my least-favorite fruit of the pig, but I have never turned it down.  Makes me very thirsty, hours after I eat it.  Now, fresh ham, everyone *had better* get their fill before I go in for seconds. :D
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 18, 2010, 07:24:36 PM
Oh, my favorite is SOUTHERN country ham - salt and more salt and little extra salt...
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 18, 2010, 07:31:16 PM
My sainted mother was just like you Fr. W, and she also loved red-eye gravy.  And she was from no where near the south.  She was born in Morningside, Sioux City, IA j ust like our president-elect and Pr. Chas. Austin.  Then she spent the rest of her life in Omaha.  Thankfully, she also loved pork chops and raised hogs before I was born. 
We consider your neck of the woods borderline south.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 07:53:59 PM
unity is not found in synodical structure or roster, but in confession.
That is not always true. There are those who essentially have said, "I know that you confess that you believe as I do, but since you change the meaning of words, you don't really confess the same thing I do."

I do agree with you Brian, there is the problem of semantics.  Words have meaning and, unfortunately, some folks use words in ways that can mislead.  It's tough to have unity when semantic problems keep cropping up.  I think finally unity is a work of the Holy Spirit.  He knows what he means, and we just have to trust that.
Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 07:56:39 PM
Lou,
My heartiest congratulations on your ordination.  And I have every intention of continuing to support your other vocation - for sausage, bacon, and ham are my three favorite meats!  :)

This means a lot to me, Pastor Weedon.  I have always admired pastors with a deep and thorough grasp of scriptures and the confessions.  If I could have a fraction of what I'm sure you have forgotten, I would be deeply blessed.
And thanks for the pork support also!
 :)  Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Weedon on July 18, 2010, 10:55:39 PM
Now, Lou, that is too kind.  I don't know either the Scriptures or the Symbols nearly so well as I should.  But the joy of our calling is that we get to keep plugging away at them - and the joys keep coming!  Blessings upon you and your preaching, teaching, and administering of the Sacraments.  It is a delight indeed to have you as an Amtsbruder! 
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Karl Hess on July 18, 2010, 11:06:35 PM
I agree Lou.  I used to live in Seattle, so maybe next time I visit my mother in law in Oregon we'll make a trip out to where you're at (Spokane, right?)  God's blessing on your ministry.  (By the way, I wouldn't be so sure Missourians would have a problem with the way you came into the ministry.  And even if they did, they would rejoice over your orthodoxy and your present rightly ordered call.)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: justified and sinner on July 18, 2010, 11:13:18 PM
Huh???  I'm genuinely confused by your comments, Dan.  I've not encountered anything close to that. 

Will,

I have, including at the airport as I left Houston, and at the one reception i talked to you about.  The conversation in both places talked about everyone becoming like those talking, and no tolerance of any differences in practice.  At the airport - the conversation noted that there was nothing wrong with the focus on W&S, the difference between L&G, a difference in creedal or subscription ot the AC or AAC.  The difference was in the communication of that.

I will admit there is paranoia  - but there is also a cause for it.  The problem is - are these just the extremes - or the realities?
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LCMS87 on July 18, 2010, 11:14:16 PM
A double amen to Pr. Hess' parenthetical comment.  

Faithful confession and the call of God's people lead me to rejoice that you are a brother in the holy ministry.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 18, 2010, 11:20:21 PM
Pr. Hesse,
My heart rejoices for your ministry.  Please give Deb my felicitations as well.

Can we come out for a pig roast with new potatoes, onions and corn on the cob?  Pretty please?
Churned butter would be nice.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Team Hesse on July 18, 2010, 11:35:47 PM
I agree Lou.  I used to live in Seattle, so maybe next time I visit my mother in law in Oregon we'll make a trip out to where you're at (Spokane, right?)  God's blessing on your ministry.  (By the way, I wouldn't be so sure Missourians would have a problem with the way you came into the ministry.  And even if they did, they would rejoice over your orthodoxy and your present rightly ordered call.)

Many thanks for the kind remarks from the brothers. 
If anyone lets me know when they're coming, pork, corn on the cob, and new potatoes can possibly be on the menu.  Our county grows more potatoes and sweet corn than any other county in the nation, and though we don't churn our own butter, Deb has quite a reputation for really good homemade ice cream as Jim Nestingen can now attest.  He went home from the ordination with a cooler full of excessed roast hog from the ordination dinner,  and quite a bit of bacon.  He seemed genuinely pleased, if you know what I mean.

Where in Oregon is your mother in law, Karl?  Debbie and I grew up in Hillsboro, OR where her folks and a number of my relatives still reside.  We are now at Moses Lake, 120 miles west of Spokane on Interstate 90; our farm is 5 miles north of the freeway at exit 169 -- very easy to find.

Lou
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 19, 2010, 12:04:02 AM
The ultra-purist corn and pork people in Nebraska always claim that our food is better than what is produced on the left coast is better have never proved that to me.  I grew up in Nebraska, yet I always enjoyed the left coast food in San Diego during the 25 years I lived there.   We must have gotten Pr. & Debbie Hesse's pork and corn at Vons   & Ralph's stores without knowing it was good Lutheran food.

That ice cream sounds good.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: grabau14 on July 19, 2010, 12:37:42 AM
Congrats on the rite vocatus, Lou!  I grilled up some bacon cheeseburgers tonight in honor of your ordination.  I will continue to honor your ordination by having some ribs tomorrow night.  :D
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Mel Harris on July 19, 2010, 02:25:33 AM

Welcome Lou.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Charles_Austin on July 19, 2010, 04:39:21 AM
As a native Iowan and an honest person, I am forced to admit that New Jersey sweet corn in August is as good as the Iowa crop. (And, sadly, this year, I shall miss most of it.)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 19, 2010, 05:00:59 AM
As a native Iowan and an honest person, I am forced to admit that New Jersey sweet corn in August is as good as the Iowa crop. (And, sadly, this year, I shall miss most of it.)
My Morningside born mother used to harvest the field-corn early enough and declared it good enough. 
We ate it, and enjoyed!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 19, 2010, 05:26:17 AM
Of course we used pure, sweet butter.  Mama had a real aversion to oleomargarine.  Something to do with the lard-looking color and dye packet that one was supposed to mix in circa WWII. 

Daddy thought bacon fat was an acceptable substitute, so I tried it and it was good.  Didn't even need salt!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: John_Hannah on July 19, 2010, 06:12:55 AM
As a native Iowan and an honest person, I am forced to admit that New Jersey sweet corn in August is as good as the Iowa crop. (And, sadly, this year, I shall miss most of it.)

I'm from Iowa and fully agree with Charles on NJ corn.

Peace, JOHN HANNAH
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Jeremy Loesch on July 19, 2010, 07:25:01 AM
Perhaps the goodness of the NJ corn is due to its proximity to the Delmarva Peninsula.   ;D

Two ears of fresh Eastern Shore corn, 1 hush puppy, 5-6 clam strips, one drum stick, and 13-15 steamed crabs is the best! 

Jeremy   
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Charles_Austin on July 19, 2010, 07:25:30 AM
It is such a joy to know that someone here agrees with me on something!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 19, 2010, 07:31:35 AM
Pr. Austin,
I suspect you would be easy to like in person.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Charles_Austin on July 19, 2010, 07:58:07 AM
Lutherman writes:
Pr. Austin,
I suspect you would be easy to like in person.

I respond:
Nope. Although cats, people who like food and two well-known supermodels think I'm terrific.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Maryland Brian on July 19, 2010, 08:04:50 AM
Oh, my favorite is SOUTHERN country ham - salt and more salt and little extra salt...

  Twelve hours of butt roast in my wood-pit BBQ, smoked over hickory.  Ahhh ...

Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Evangel on July 19, 2010, 10:04:49 AM
I'm with Bri... er, PersonSelf on this. 

And ... everything's better with bacon (should be a new marketing campaign).

Congrats (again) Lou.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Charles_Austin on July 19, 2010, 10:23:20 AM
Yes, Pastor Hughes pops up occasionally under a nom de internet. Dunno why.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Cathy Ammlung on July 19, 2010, 10:47:33 AM
Wow, gotta read EVERYTHING on ALPB to catch up with the latest news. Congratulations, REV. Lou, and God bless you in your new call.

As to the ham and red-eye gravy, I remember watching, in horror, as my mother SALTED her ham before actually tasting it. :P She made a raisin sauce - is that similar to red-eye gravy or is that a whole different species?
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 19, 2010, 11:08:11 AM
I have no idea what goes on in red-eye gravy.  I was too busy rinsing my slice of ham while mom was salting hers.   :o
I do know I hate turkey stuffing with raisins, oysters, sausage or any other foreign objects stuffed into it.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: hillwilliam on July 19, 2010, 11:16:12 AM
I have no idea what goes on in red-eye gravy.  I was too busy rinsing my slice of ham while mom was salting hers.   :o
I do know I hate turkey stuffing with raisins, oysters, sausage or any other foreign objects stuffed into it.

When I was a boy my father used to smoke our hams with a brown sugar cure. Sounds like you would have much happier if your mom had done the same.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Daniel L. Gard on July 19, 2010, 11:18:46 AM
I bought a ham in a "Virginia" ham store while in Norfolk. It was interesting to learn that the source of the ham was Iowa.

Congratulations , Lou!
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: LutherMan on July 19, 2010, 11:22:49 AM
No one can do pork better than the Danish ELCA Iowegians.  Henningsens in Atlantic comes to mind. :)
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: hillwilliam on July 19, 2010, 11:23:04 AM
Congratulations Lou on your ordination. I am glad you finally heard God's calling and made it official. I hope to be able to congratulate you in person at the convocation.

Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: James Thomas Sharp on July 23, 2010, 12:31:14 AM
Corn and tomatoes are two of the types of produce where freshness makes an absolute difference and, therefore, fresh corn from some commie state like NJ or Maryland is preferable to older corn from God's country like Iowa or Illinois.


And congrats and condolences to the forum's newest padre.
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: J. Eriksson on September 04, 2010, 09:58:42 AM
How and why did this news about Lou get buried in this thread!!! >:(
For days now I've been wondering about Team Hesse's posts and the signature Rev. Louis.(too shy to ask)

Move this out of the LCMS convention thread and unto your turn.

Congratulations Lou  but even more so....reading a long time ago in the 'go get yourself ordained thread' ..hearing of the feelings of your people being 'burned by church officials wearing a collar'  and the level of mistrust.

So I rejoice more in that they voted to 'call' you knowing this would put a clerical collar on you.
My thanks to the Lord of the church and prayers that He will use you mightily to witness to the Gospel.

Best
James
Title: Re: A View from the Bottom
Post by: Richard Johnson on September 04, 2010, 10:00:49 AM

Move this out of the LCMS convention thread and unto your turn.


It remains here as a testimony to the serious consequences of thread drift.